tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14644629263112282862024-02-07T14:24:24.459-08:00Cans of CoolA reboot of the review blog, now with Baseball writings and crunchy research tidbits. Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger136125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-29729595256798735162014-07-29T15:46:00.001-07:002014-09-08T12:58:38.654-07:002015 Early Keltners: John Smoltz<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smoltjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">John Smoltz</a></b> was on the team that broke my heart in 1992, but I'll forgive him. He remains one of my favorite pitchers, and one of my favorite players of the 1990s. It's funny how making the playoffs last year has mellowed me about the Braves. <br />
<br />
<b><u>1. Was he considered the best player in baseball?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
I would argue that until the mid 1990s, Smoltz was viewed as the <i>third best pitcher on his team</i>. He won 24 games in 1996, and everyone went "Hey! Who's that guy with the beard?!?!?! The one 24 games over .500 for his career? The third guy behind that Maddux and Glavine?" Smoltz was an excellent athlete, and according to Maddux and the <i>Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers</i> possessed the best stuff of any of the big 3.<br />
<br />
<b><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
I would argue that Smoltz was....the best pitcher on the Braves staff. This is a terrible risk, considering the chocolate covered awesomeness that was <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Greg Maddux</a></b>. However, Smoltz was power with the "you will not get a pitch to hit" mentality; his two seamer was explosive and his slider was known to remove the hats of hitters. And he had excellent control; Smoltz fanned 200 hitters five times in his career, but walked 100 only once, in 1993. His 12 IBB had something to do with that. As a fan, I feared for the dignity of my teams hitters when he pitched. <br />
<br />
<b><u>3.Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
Again, perhaps, but <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=johnsra05,johnsra04,johnsra03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Randy Johnson</a></b> enters the argument in the 2000s. Between 2002 and 2004, he was the best closer in baseball. I told my brother in 2001 that Smoltz was going to be the "next <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/eckerde01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Dennis Eckersley</a></b>". I was right for three years. <br />
<br />
<b><u>4. Did he have a significant impact on pennant races?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
Smoltz had a reputation as a money pitcher. In 5 games when the Braves faced elimination from the playoffs (Game 7 of the 1991 NLCS and World Series, the 1992 NLCS, game 4 of the 1999 World Series and game 5 of the 2002 NLDS) here is Smoltz's line:<br />
<br />
31 1/3 IP, 23 H, 5 ER, 9 BB, 30 K, 1.033 WHIP, 1.43 ERA.<br />
<br />
Smoltz made 8 starts in the world series. Some may quibble with him winning only two of those starts, but try this on for size: the Braves scored 33 runs in those starts, with 19 of them coming in two games. For 6 other World Series starts, Smoltz had 14 runs to work with, and lost 1-0 twice: once to <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morrija02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jack Morris</a></b> in 1991, and to Andy Pettite in 1996.<br />
<br />
His overall postseason record is 15-4 with 4 saves, 199 K in 209 IP. Yeah, that's money. <br />
<br />
<b><u>5. Was he good enough to contribute past his prime?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
Smoltz had <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tommy John</a></b> surgery in 2000 at age 33, and won 14 games as a 40 year old in 2007 and made his final all star team. He pitched pretty well in only 6 starts in 2008 and was terrible with the Red Sox in 2009. He led the NL in wins with 16 at age 39 in 2006.<br />
<br />
<b><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
No, that would be <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></b>. He may be the second or third best pitcher, behind Randy Johnson and <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Roger Clemens</a></b>.<br />
<br />
<b><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
No players are "truly similar" to Smoltz, a mark in his favor. Of the ten, three are in the Hall (<b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bunniji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jim Bunning</a></b>, <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hunteca01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Catfish Hunter</a></b> and <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/drysddo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Don Drysdale</a></b>), two of whom a borderline candidates in my opinion. His best comp, <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schilcu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Curt Schilling</a></b>, in my opinion should be in the hall (<a href="http://cansofcool.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-keltner-list-curt-schilling.html">http://cansofcool.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-keltner-list-curt-schilling.html</a>). So, there is a favorable argument here. <br />
<br />
<b><u>8.Do the player's numbers meet hall of fame standards?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
Smoltz hits 167 on the HoF monitor, with a likely Hall of Famer scoring 100. For standards, he comes in at 44 with an average Hall of Famer at 50. So, yes. His numbers as a starter are not as robust due to spending four seasons as a closer where he notched 154 saves. That's 38 per year, Holmes!<br />
<br />
<b><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest that he was better than his statistics?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
I think so, as he was consistently said to own the best pure stuff on a staff that will eventually include three hall of fame starters. <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kimbrcr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Craig Kimbrel</a></b>l passed him as the all time leader in saves for the Braves franchise earlier this month; Smoltz held the record despite being in the closer's spot for only three plus years. <br />
<br />
<b><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
No. See question #6.<br />
<br />
<b><u>11. How many </u><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: #993300;"><b>Cy Young</b></span></a><b><u> type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an Cy Young Award? If not, how often did he come close?</u></b></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
Smoltz won the 1996 <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Cy Young</a></b> Award, and finished in the top five in 1998 and 2002. In 2006 he was 7th, and 2007 he was 6th. <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/webbbr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Brandon Webb</a></b> deserved it more than Smoltz in both seasons, along with <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/peavyja01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jake Peavy</a></b>, the winner in 2006.<br />
<br />
<b><u>12. How many All-Star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></b><br />
Smoltz made 8 ASG, and started the game in 1996, which he won. His first ASG selection was in 1989...he was 11-6 in the first half that season, and went 1-5 in 11 starts after. Of the 6 other starting pitchers who made 8 ASG, four are in the Hall and two (<b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=martipe02,martipe03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Pedro Martinez</a></b> and <b><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hallaro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Roy Halladay</a></b>) will certainly merit consideration. <br />
<br />
<b><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
Certainly, any team with Smoltz as its ace would contend. <br />
<br />
<b><u>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history</u></b>?<br />
<br />
Smoltz was part of the three headed monster, the best rotation of the 1990s and quite possibly the best rotation in the history of major league baseball. It seemed Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz had been pitching together since Moses wore short pants in 1993, but it was just getting started. Unlike Eckersley, he made a successful return to the rotation in 2005, going 24 games over .500 for the next three years as a starter. When you think about it, that maybe the most impressive part of Smoltz's career. To make the switch once is difficult, but to go back to the rotation, at age 38 on a team perennially in the playoff chase, is quite a damn accomplishment. <br />
<br />
<b><u>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</u></b><br />
<b><u></u></b><br />
As far as I know he did just that<i>, </i>being a well respected if not beloved teammate.<br />
<br />
For my money, Smoltz is a first ballot hall of famer. </div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-87379000949461691262014-06-23T10:44:00.002-07:002014-06-23T10:44:52.041-07:002015 Keltners Come Early: Troy Percival<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
This year, I will start early on the Keltner list, to take breaks between my job and writing for graduate school. Sheesh.<br />
<br />
I will begin by looking at some of the first year ballot people, which is quite an interesting list for 2015. Today, it is <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/percitr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Troy Percival</a></strong>, one of the top closers of the late 90s and early 2000s. He was drafted in the 6th Rd out of UC-Riverside. He spent his first season in the minors as a catcher in 1990, then switched to the bullpen at Boise in 1991. <br />
<br />
<ol>
<li><strong>Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?</strong></li>
</ol>
Not to my knowledge. He was well respected, but never considered "the best". <br />
Was he the best player on his team? No, but was a big part of a World Series championship.<br />
<br />
<strong>2. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</strong><br />
<br />
Percival appeared in the post-season just once but was on the World Series champion 2002 Angels. In the 2002 post season, he recorded 7 saves in 9 appearances, and was dominant in the AL Championship series against the Twins (2 SV, 0.00 ERA, 3 1/3 perfect IP.) Down the stretch in 2002, Percival posted a great 1.61 ERA after the All Star Break. He blew a save on April 21 against the A's, dropping the Angels record to 6-12, and only blew three more during the rest of the regular season.<br />
<br />
In 1997, Percival recorded 13 SV in August and September as the Angels faded to second. While he was voted a full share of the 2006 Tiger's series share, he was on the DL all season with a forearm injury<br />
<br />
<strong>3. Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play past his prime?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
The aforementioned injury cost Percival the better part of two seasons before he decided to comeback with the Cardinals in 2007. The 2005 injury was at age 35, and Percival had pitched in at least 50 games 10 seasons in a row before he was hurt. After his comeback, he was not the same pitcher, but managed to last one season as a closer for the Rays in 2008.<br />
<br />
<strong>4. Is he the best player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?</strong><br />
<br />
No.<br />
<br />
<strong>5. Are most players with comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame?</strong><br />
<br />
Of Percival's 10 best comps (all over 900 on the similarity scale, a very strong comp number) none are in the hall. His #2 comp was the closer on the team Percival's Angels beat in the 2002 Series, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/nenro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Robb Nen</a></strong>. While Nen, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/montgje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jeff Montgomery</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beckro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Rod Beck</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/henketo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tom Henke</a></strong> were all good relievers, none are particularly good candidates. <br />
<br />
<strong>6. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?</strong><br />
<br />
Percival never led the league in saves (ummmmmmm.....<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riverma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mariano Rivera</a></strong>?) and is borderline on the hall of fame monitor. He is very low on the HoF standards, and his career peak is roughly 1/2 the WAR value of the 5 relievers in the hall of fame. <br />
<br />
<strong>7. Is there any evidence to suggest he was significantly worse or better than his statistics?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Not really. Percival may have been the first closer to be groomed as such when in the minor leagues; I am not sure about this, but he certainly was one of the first. He is also the career leader in saves for the Angels franchise.<br />
<br />
<strong>8. Is he the best player <em>at his position</em> who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
I would argue no and would pick <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithle02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Lee Smith</a></strong>. One could also point to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smoltjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">John Smoltz</a></strong>, but as he was a starter for the majority of his career, I would go with Lee Smith. <br />
<br />
<strong>9. How many <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Cy Young</a></strong>/MVP seasons did he have? Did he ever win a Cy Young award? If not, how many times was he close?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Percival <em>never</em> got a vote for a Cy Young award. Not one. He deserved a few in 2002 probably, and maybe a few other seasons. <br />
<br />
<strong>10. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go to the Hall of Fame?</strong><br />
<br />
Percival was selected for four ASG and pitched in three (1996, 1998-99, 2001). He was deserving in 2004. For the five relievers in the Hall, they average seven appearances, not including Mariano Rivera's non-eligible 13 appearances. <br />
<br />
<strong>11. If this man was the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
I don't think so. Granted, closers are an important piece of a ballclub (regardless if the "book" covering their use is nonsense) but the one postseason appearance in Percival's career with the Angels speaks for itself. For the best Angels of the period, I would go with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/salmoti01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tim Salmon</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/erstada01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Darin Erstad</a></strong> or <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/edmonji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jim Edmonds</a></strong>. <br />
<br />
<strong>12. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Again, I am not sure if Percival was the first pitcher to be groomed as a closer from A ball on. If so, that is a fairly important place.<br />
<br />
<strong>13. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?</strong><br />
<br />
When Percival was voted a full share for the 2006 World Series, he used the money to pay for a box at Comerica Park for the use of the players wives. He has run multiple baseball camps in southern California, and coaches at his old high school. <br />
<br />
While a good pitcher for quite a few years, I don't think Percival is a Hall of Fame candidate. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-62948184143868347872014-01-10T11:22:00.000-08:002014-01-10T11:22:50.149-08:00Hall of Fame Voting<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Congrats to Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux on being voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. All three are deserving candidates.<br />
<br />
That being said, all three are absolutely no brainers. In short, here is what I think about this vote. <br />
<br />
<br />
1. For the 16 writers who did not vote for Greg Maddux: I will make no attempt, nor justification, concerning the blinkard, Philistine pig-ignorance of not voting for someone on the first ballot. Your votes should be taken away. Don't vote for him because you don't want to, not because of some foolish notion that no one is a 100% Hall of Fame player. If you, as one of the Dodgers writers did, chose not to vote for him because of the era he played in. you are even more foolish.<br />
<br />
<br />
2. Jack Morris was not elected. In one of my previous posts, I pointed out that without his post-season record, he is Dennis Martinez. Even with his post-season record, he is a less worthy candidate than Curt Schilling. <a href="http://cansofcool.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-keltner-list-jack-morris.html">http://cansofcool.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-keltner-list-jack-morris.html</a><br />
<br />
To make the argument that he was the Pitcher of the 1980s is foolish, as it pays attention to one thing: he won more games than anyone else in the 1980s. Who won more Cy Youngs in the 1980s than Morris? Roger Clemens, Steve Stone and Lamarr Hoyt to name a few. Hoyt led the league in wins more times in the 1980s than Morris. The pitcher of the 1980s is most likely Roger Clemens, not Jack Morris.<br />
<br />
Mark Grace had more hits than anyone in baseball in the 1990s, and was on the All Star team 3 times, never finished higher than 13th in the MVP voting. Does this mean that he is a hall of famer because he had the most-of-something in a decade? The same voters do not think so, as Grace disappeared after receiving 4.1% of the votes in 2009.<br />
<br />
3. Craig Biggio missed induction by two votes; one writer sent in a blank ballot, an several are on record saying that they will not vote for anyone who did PEDs. Biggio is not linked to PEDs. Why not vote for a man who was an All Star at two of the most demanding defensive positions as well as one of the top leadoff and number two hitters of the 1990s? Who knows? To repeat: one writer sent in a blank ballot as a protest, another refuses to vote for anyone who played in the 1990s. So who voted for Jacque Jones?<br />
<br />
<br />
4. Of the "certain" users, Rafael Palmeiro will be off the ballot next year, even though Tom Singer described him as a "constant marvel" before he was caught doping. Singer did not vote for Bonds.<br />
<br />
<br />
Pre PED MVPs for Bonds: 4<br />
Career MVPs for Palmeiro: 0. Nada, Zilch, Bumpkis. <br />
<br />
Pre PED All Star Games for Bonds: 8<br />
Career All Star Games for Palmeiro: 4<br />
<br />
Before Bonds went on the PEDs in 1998 he was the best player in baseball. Palmeiro was a good first baseman. Mr. Singer, no offense, but that "constant marvel" line is silly. Barry Bonds pre PEDs was three times the player that Palmeiro ever was.<br />
<br />
5. Rafael Palmeiro will be the first player in baseball history to have 3000 hits and not be in the hall. That is unless the Vets Committee comes up with a way of dealing with the steroid era. <br />
<br />
6. Alan Trammel will probably not get voted in; next year, players such as Randy Johnson, Gary Sheffield, John Smoltz and Pedro Martinez will crowd him off. This is a crime.<br />
<br />
7. Lee Smith will probably disappear next year as well, even though he should not. Since one fool voted for Benitez this year, some fool or two will vote for Troy Percival next year and not vote for Lee Smith.<br />
<br />
8. I am surprised that Larry Walker did not crack 20% of the vote. He deserved more, as did Fred McGriff. I am not sure that they are Hall of Famers, but they are better than their vote percentage. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br /></div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-54345571126558515492014-01-02T12:58:00.000-08:002014-01-02T12:58:08.371-08:00The Keltner List: Mike Piazza<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
This is the final Keltner List that I will do prior to the announcement of the Hall of Fame voting. Piazza is in a strange position, as he is under a cloud of steroid suspicion. Piazza never tested positive for PEDs. He admitted in his book that he used androstenodione, the same substance that set off the "wait-where-did-these-supplements-come-from" business in 1998 when it was spied in <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgwima01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mark McGwire</a></strong>'s locker. The other evidence against Piazza is due to Murray Chass and Jeff Pearlman, writers who point to the following things:<br />
<br />
1. Back acne, a symptom of steroid use.<br />
2. Piazza was a 62nd round draftee out of Miami-Dade CC of the Dodgers in 1988.<br />
3. Rumors that Piazza was juicing.<br />
<br />
I would respond this way:<br />
<br />
1. Yes, it is a symptom of steroid use. Piazza is listed at 6'3, 200 lbs. Piazza had huge thighs when he came up to the majors and had incredibly strong hands. Could this be a product of swinging a sledgehammer around as his dad insists? Possibly. Could it be steroids? Possibly.<br />
<br />
2. As far as I could figure out, the only other 62nd round draft pick to make the major leagues was <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harribi04.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Billy Harris</a></strong>, a shortstop who spent parts of two seasons with Cleveland and Kansas City in 1968 and 1969. However, at least 253 professional baseball players spent time at Miami Dade CC since the 1960s. I also have to point out that the University of Miami won the National Championship in 1985; Piazza walked on. Coach Ron Fraser was a friend of Tommy Lasorda. Piazza told the <i>Los Angeles Times</i> in 1993 that he "was overwhelmed and wanted out" and wound up at Miami-Dade...after injuries, he took to the weight room."<br />
<br />
I know plenty of people who walked on to football and basketball teams at the University of Iowa, and they are almost all five times the athletes that I am. That Piazza "had no talent" but actually got to play with a university that had won two titles in five years is horseshit. If Lasorda doesn't call in a favor, sure, Piazza does not go to Florida. Are you telling me that he wasn't good enough to not go anywhere else?<br />
<br />
3. Name me five players who put up huge numbers in the 1990s who by 2003 were not "rumored to be juicing." That list is long and distinguished and proves nothing. If anything, it strikes me as knee-jerk reaction on the part of an industry that did its best to defend the changes in the game of the 1990s following the strike.<br />
<br />
<b style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></b><br />
<b style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></b>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Not that I am aware of. One of the best hitters, yes. One of the best players? Not really.</span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">From 1993-1997 Piazza was the best Dodger; he was their best hitter playing a very difficult defensive position. From 1998-2002 he was the best hitter the Mets had, again playing a very difficult defensive position. I would answer a solid yes to this question.</span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Piazza was the best catcher in the NL for his offensive prowess in the 1990s, bar none. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsch04.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Charles Johnson</a></strong> was much better defensively and hit some HR but he was nowhere near the offensive force that Piazza was. During the 1990s, Piazza and Pudge Rodriguez were by universal acclaim the best catchers in baseball, with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santibe01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Benito Santiago</a></strong> a somewhat distant third. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">In 2000, Piazza was wonderful in the postseason (.333/.409/.769) hitting 4 HR in 10 games. Besides that season, his post season record is fairly weak (.234/.281/.345) in 22 games. Piazza had a tendency to wear down in September (after all, he was a catcher) with an incredibly, earth shatteringly awful OPS of .888 in September for his career. Sheesh. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">In 1995, Piazza hit .448 against the Rockies with 4 HR while the Dodgers finished a game ahead of them and beat the Rockies 9 times in 13 tries. </span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">The 2000 Mets crumbled a bit in September and finished second to the Braves by a game. Piazza hit below his standard in September (.771 OPS) but did hit 5 HR in the month.</span></span><br />
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<b><u>5. Was he good enough to contribute past his prime?</u></b></div>
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Piazza began to wear down in 2003, missing most of his 34 year old season with injuries. He hit 22 HR with San Diego at 37 as a full time catcher, but struggled mightily in Oakland the next season. For a catcher, Piazza was still quite productive into his early 30s after having caught 130 or more games six times between 1993 and 2002.</span><br />
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<strong style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">No; I would still vote Bonds here, but Piazza is in the top five. </span><br />
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<strong style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Of Piazza's 10 highest comps, seven are in the hall. As <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=jamesbi02,jamesbi01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bill James</a></strong> pointed out, "most ordinary players will have 5-10 truly similar players" (James, <i>Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame</i>, 93). This would be a similarity score of over 900. </span></span><span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Only <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/benchjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Johnny Bench</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/berrayo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Yogi Berra</a></strong> score as "similar" to Piazza with scores over 800. This is a marker of Piazza being an extraordinary player. </span><br />
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<strong style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>8. Do the players number meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Piazza scores a 62 on the Hall of Fame standards and 207 on the hall monitor. Both of these are well above the average hall of fame player. </span><br />
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<strong style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">The biggest knock on Piazza throughout his career was on defense. Piazza allowed the most SB by a catcher in the NL 10 times in his 13 full seasons as a full time catcher. He led the NL in passed balls twice but scores well on metrics such as range factor. Piazza was an average to slightly below average catcher early in his career via the total zone rating, but was awful behind the plate after the 2001 season. </span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">In the article "Should <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=piazzmi01,piazza001mik&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mike Piazza</a></strong> be in the Hall of Fame?" John Dewan questions the efficacy of defensive metrics with Piazza, and also points out that he handled pitchers very well. The one thing that most people agree upon is that Piazza was terrible at throwing out basestealers. This strikes me as interesting, as Tommy Lasorda told the story repeatedly that <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fergujo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Joe Ferguson</a></strong>, whom he hired to work with Piazza, really liked his arm. </span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">(</span><a href="http://www.billjamesonline.com/should_mike_piazza_be_in_the_hall_of_fame_/">http://www.billjamesonline.com/should_mike_piazza_be_in_the_hall_of_fame_</a>/)<br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I would argue no, as I would still go with Bonds. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u style="color: #222222;">11. How many MVP</u></strong><u style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><strong> type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how often did he come close?</strong></u><br />
<u style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><strong><br /></strong></u>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Piazza never won an MVP; he was the Rookie of the Year in 1993 and took home the silver slugger award as a catcher in the NL every year from 1993-2002. He did finish in the top 10 in the MVP voting seven times in ten seasons (1993-2002).</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">In 1996, he finished second to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/caminke01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ken Caminiti</a></strong> who enjoyed one of the great fluke seasons of all time. That this fluke in particular was powered to some extent by steroids is ironic in light of Piazza's place with many of the voters. </span><br />
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">1997 was arguably Piazza's greatest season (40 HR, .362 BA, 8.7 WAR) and he finished a distant second to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/walkela01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Larry Walker</a></strong>, who had his greatest season. Had I a vote, I would have voted for Piazza.</span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Piazza was named to 12 AS teams and started 10 games. He was MVP of the 1996 All Star game (2-3, HR and a double). Only three catchers (Berra, Bench and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rodriiv01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ivan Rodriguez</a></strong>) have appeared in more all star games. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/howarel01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Elston Howard</a></strong> also was named to twelve teams. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Piazza deserved to start every season between 1993 and 2002.</span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I would say yes to this. A catcher who in his prime produces numbers like an elite RF or 1B is an incredibly rare commodity; he will win more games with his bat than he would cost with his glove. </span><br />
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<strong style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history</u></strong><span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">?</span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Piazza's story in the 1990s is tied to the "hard-work-makes-good" story that hearkened back to the times when a friend of the manager in this town tells a scout to hang around an extra day and watch this one kid pitch....and he turns out to be a major league caliber player that you never heard of. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">This is why Piazza is a polarizing figure. He will most likely be the last unknown great ballplayer. He started in the minors in the late 1980s, before the Internet, the ever expanding tentacles of ESPN and the explosion of minor league baseball sites. Piazza is a throwback to the 1930s or 40s. No one saw him coming, and people want reasons. Look at the bios of many players from the 1920s and 1930s, and they were discovered in much the same way Piazza was: through family friends with connections with the baseball business. Piazza's story of an unknown making the majors was not as unknown 80 years ago as it is now. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Of course, most of those sons of friends of the manager's cousin don't wind up being the best hitting catcher in the history of baseball. How could we not see it? No one was looking. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">The cynic in me says the only reason he admitted to using andro in his book is to curry favor with hall voters. However, he did admit it 11 years earlier. He is a committed supporter of the Miami Ballet and served as a coach for the Italian Olympic team. I would argue that he does, and did while a player.</span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Vote the man in, already. If there is no solid evidence against him, I don't think there is a question. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/glavito02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tom Glavine</a></strong> described him as a first ballot hall of famer, and I won't argue with that. </span></span></div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-65095482014608859342013-12-30T18:49:00.000-08:002013-12-30T18:49:17.463-08:00The Keltner List: Tom Glavine<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/glavito02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tom Glavine</a></strong> was the one of the three headed monster that just made me angry. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Greg Maddux</a></strong> was a scientist on the mound while <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smoltjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">John Smoltz</a></strong> had that stuff that made you shake your head. Glavine never struck me as a sensational pitcher while he was pitching. He just won games. There was artistry there a plenty; perhaps in my youth (and hatred of the Atlanta Braves) I just missed it completely. Glavine is one of those players who I grew to appreciate as I got older simply because I learned more about the game. <br />
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<b><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></b></div>
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<strong><u></u></strong> </div>
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I don't think that Glavine was ever considered the best player in baseball. If so, I have never seen the story. Glavine was an excellent athlete and was drafted in the 4th round by the LA Kings as a hockey player.</div>
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<strong><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong></div>
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No; I would vote for Maddux or Smoltz, or <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesch06.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Chipper Jones</a></strong> or <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesan01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Andruw Jones</a></strong>.</div>
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<strong><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong></div>
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Glavine was generally not considered the best pitcher on his team, let alone in his league or in baseball. In the dark days between the 1982-83 Braves teams and the 1990 team, Glavine lost much more than he won. This had much more to do with his defense than Glavine: in 1989 the Braves had <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/blausje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jeff Blauser</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/treadje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jeff Treadway</a></strong> on the infield instead of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gantro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ron Gant</a></strong> (!) at second and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/oberkke01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ken Oberkfell</a></strong> at third. </div>
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Glavine was 10-14 in 1990, the first year that Mazzone was pitching coach. </div>
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<strong><u><span style="background-color: #fff9ee;">4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</span></u></strong></div>
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The Braves appeared in the playoffs with Glavine every single season between 1991 and 2002. Glavine was very effective in his World Series starts and allowed on 33 hits in 58+ innings with a moderately higher K rate than in other postseason appearances. He was the MVP of the 1995 World Series when he won games 2 and 6.</div>
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Glavine was dominant in the first half of the 1991 season, his first 20 win campaign. He did struggle in September against the second place Dodgers (11+ IP, 18 H, 8 ER) but the Braves took the division by a single game on the power of an 8 game win streak at the end of September in which Glavine won two games. </div>
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In 1993, Glavine and the Braves won the NL west by a game again, this time over the Giants. Glavine was vital, winning 9 of his last 11 decisions and going 6-1 in September.</div>
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In 2000, Glavine was only 3-3 in September as the Braves won the east by a game over the Mets; the Braves were in position to win due in part to Glavine's 11 wins in 12 decisions in July and August. For his career, Glavine was 17-7 against the Mets, 20-16 against the Giants and 20-18 against the Dodgers. Glavine owns a 3.48 career ERA in September.<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><b><u>5. Was he good enough to contribute past his prime?</u></b></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Glavine was a very productive pitcher until 2002 at age 36, and did not go on the DL until 2008. Glavine was down in 2003 but rebounded produce better than league average ERAs for the Mets for the next three years, and was a key element in the 2006 Mets division championship team. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><strong><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">No, as I would still vote for Bonds here, and perhaps Maddux. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Four of Glavine's comps are in the hall of fame (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wynnea01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Early Wynn</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/seaveto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tom Seaver</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/welchmi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mickey Welch</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruffire01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Red Ruffing</a></strong>), one will be but is not eligible (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=johnsra05,johnsra04,johnsra03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Randy Johnson</a></strong>) and two have compelling cases (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kaatji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jim Kaat</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tommy John</a></strong>). It is an impressive list, made more so that no pitcher has a similarity score higher than 880 with Glavine. Better players tend to be in a class by themselves, and Glavine is in the vicinity of that description. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><strong><u>8. Do the players number meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Glavine scores a 52 on the hall of fame standards and 176 on the hall of fame monitor; the monitor marks him as an extremely likely hall of famer. Glavine's 7 best WAR seasons are a little short than most hall of fame pitchers, but still place him 66th all time at the position. Glavine was good for an exceptionally long time with several legitimately great seasons mixed in. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><strong><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong></span></div>
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Chicks may dig the long ball, and Glavine was an above average hitting pitcher for his career. Glavine hit only 1 HR in his career, off <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smilejo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">John Smiley</a></strong> in 1995. He holds the record for most sacrifice bunts in a career by a pitcher (216) and drew over 100 walks.</div>
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Glavine's composure was legendary, and that is probably why I hated watching him pitch. He was a machine on the mound, getting ahead of hitters with well placed fastballs and then killing them with changeups that were driven into the ground. Glavine was not a soft tosser out there and he walked a lot of batters. This seems to be more of a function of Glavine refusing to give in. If a hitter did not want to hit Glavine's pitch, tough luck. It was rare to see Glavine make mistakes; between 1991 and 1998 Glavine gave up .5 HR/9. Maddux was the Bulldog, but once Glavine spotted the outside corner to right handed hitters he would never let it go.</div>
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<strong><u><span style="background-color: #fff9ee;">10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</span></u></strong></div>
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I would argue no; he is not the best pitcher eligible who has not been inducted either. </div>
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<strong><u><span style="background-color: #fff9ee;">11. How many </span></u></strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #888888; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank"><span style="color: #993300;"><strong>Cy Young</strong></span></a><u><strong> type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an Cy Young Award? If not, how often did he come close?</strong></u></div>
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Glavine won two <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Cy Youngs</a></strong> (1991 and 1998) and finished second or third in the voting 4 times. In 1998, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=brownke01,brownke04,brownke03,brown-011kev&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Kevin Brown</a></strong> was marginally better than Glavine. He was <em>The Sporting News</em> pitcher of the year in 1991 and 2000.</div>
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<strong><u><span style="background-color: #fff9ee;">12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</span></u></strong></div>
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Glavine was named to 10 ASG; only four pitchers have appeared in more (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Roger Clemens</a></strong>, Tom Seaver, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riverma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mariano Rivera</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/spahnwa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Warren Spahn</a></strong>). Spahn and Seaver are in the hall, Rivera will be and Clemens should be. Of the other four pitchers to appear in exactly 10 ASG, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fordwh01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Whitey Ford</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maricju01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Juan Marichal</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carltst01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Steve Carlton</a></strong> are all in the hall of fame while Randy Johnson is not eligible. </div>
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<strong><u><span style="background-color: #fff9ee;">13. If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</span></u></strong></div>
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A team with Glavine as an ace would contend to make the postseason every year. A pennant? I don't know. </div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee;"><span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"></span></span> </div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee;"><span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Glavine was one of the heads of perhaps the greatest rotation of all time. Generally, even when he was winning awards, he was somehow held in lesser esteem by the baseball writing public and fans than were Maddux and Smoltz. He was in many ways a throwback, as he stayed with the same team for many years and left only because of injury. The Braves refused to pick up his option following 2002 because of concerns over his shoulder. He and Maddux should be regarded as two of the preeminent "pitchers" of their era. These two men did their homework, played their game and tried to make you as a hitter come to them. </span></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee;"><span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Glavine was also a player representative for the MLBPA . Following the strike in 1994 he was booed repeatedly in many locales. He was consistently criticized in the press in Atlanta and New York.</span></span></div>
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<strong><u><span style="background-color: #fff9ee;">15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</span></u></strong></div>
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Since his retirement, Glavine has been a very strong supporter of multiple causes, including Project Backpack (which as a teacher I fully endorse) and support for Katrina victims. He coaches little league baseball and hockey in the suburban Atlanta area.</div>
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Glavine is definitely a Hall of Famer. The quibbles that one can raise are what benefit did Glavine derive from being on the Atlanta Braves teams of the 1990s? Glavine was the 2nd or 3rd starter on those teams, and his peripherals are not equal to those of Maddux or Smoltz. While he would have been an ace on many other teams, he benefited from the offensive production of the Jones Boys, Dave Justice, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgrifr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Fred McGriff</a></strong> and others. Not to say that Maddux and Smoltz did not as well, but they did not give up as many hits as Glavine or walk as many batters. While Glavine was in many ways the third best pitcher on his team, this still made him one of the best pitchers in baseball over the last 25 years. For that, he should be in the hall of fame. </div>
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-40568828748719463342013-12-28T08:21:00.002-08:002013-12-28T08:21:31.872-08:00The Keltner List: Fred McGriff<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
The next installment is one of the more overlooked players of the last 30 years, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgrifr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Fred McGriff</a></strong>. Thank you, Crime Dog, for a lot of good baseball and memories.<br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Not to my knowledge. He wound up being the best player in one of the worst trades in Yankee history: <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/collida02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dave Collins</a></strong>, McGriff and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morgami01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mike Morgan</a></strong> to the Blue Jays for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/doddto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tom Dodd</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/murrada01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dale Murray</a></strong>. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I don't think McGriff was the best player on his best teams; maybe the best hitter on the Blue Jays in the late 1980s, even with the three very good outfielders. I would tab <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesch06.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Chipper Jones</a></strong> as the best player on the Braves teams of the mid to late 1990s. He was the best player on the Tampa Bay team from 1998-2001, even counting <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boggswa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Wade Boggs</a></strong>. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">When McGriff became a full time first baseman, there was some stiff competition in the AL. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=murraed02,murray002edd&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Eddie Murray</a></strong> was still with Baltimore, Mattingly was in New York, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/joynewa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Wally Joyner</a></strong> was there, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=thomafr04,thomafr03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Frank Thomas</a></strong> in Chicago. In short, McGriff in the late 1980s with Toronto was probably not the best first baseman in his league. By the mid 1990s, the steroid explosion had dimmed McGriff's offensive contributions. He was among the top five first baseman of the 1990s, but not the best. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bagweje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jeff Bagwell</a></strong> was the best.</span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">For his career, McGriff posted a .917 OPS in the postseason. In 1995, McGriff had a slash line of .333/.415/.649 as the Braves won the World Series. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">He was also the point of two trade deadline deals.</span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">1993: the Padres traded McGriff to the Braves for three players (including <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/nieveme01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Melvin Nieves</a></strong>) and the Crime Dog responded with 19 HR in 255 AB, leading the Braves to 50 wins in their last 68 games.</span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">2001: the Cubs picked up McGriff for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aybarma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Manny Aybar</a></strong>. McGriff drove in 41 runs in 49 games but the Cubs tanked. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">In 1989, McGriff hit only .223 in September for a team that won 37 of its last 56 games. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>5. Was he good enough to contribute past his prime?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">At age 38, McGriff had an OPS+ of 125 for the Cubs and parlayed that into a free agent deal with the Dodgers for 2003. He then went on the DL for the first time in his career in June with a groin injury. He also had a bad knee for most of that season. He signed with the Rays for 2004, but played only 27 games. McGriff was one of the most durable players of the 1990s, but when the end came it came fast. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">No, I would select Bonds, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=raineti01,raineti02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tim Raines</a></strong>, Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Craig Biggio</a></strong> ahead of McGriff. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">This is where things get a bit interesting. McGriff does not have a "truly similar" comp, with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccovwi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Willie McCovey</a></strong> (887) being the most similar. Three of McGriff's comps (McCovey, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stargwi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Willie Stargell</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=willibi01,willibi02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Billy Williams</a></strong>) are hall of famers. Two others (Bagwell and Frank Thomas) will be in the hall of fame at some point. Another, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sheffga01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Gary Sheffield</a></strong>, will get consideration.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I think the best comp for McGriff is probably McCovey; both are tall, lean, lefty line drive hitters who were good for 25-35 HR every year. McCovey hit 521 HR, McGriff 493. McCovey played in the 1960s when it was a pitcher's paradise and consistently hit. McGriff played in the steroid era and consistently hit. The top two comps for McGriff (Stargell and McCovey) have roughly similar raw hitting statistics, but McGriff was not dominant like McCovey or Stargell. McGriff was consistently good for a period of 15 years in a very hard hitting era. Bagwell and Thomas were better. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>8. Do the players number meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">McGriff's stats suggest a likely hall of famer, but somewhat below average for the hall itself: 100 on the Hall of Fame monitor and 48 on the standards list. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">McGriff was durable: between 1988 and 2000, McGriff played 95% of his teams games. He was also remarakably consistent:</span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Home OPS: .885, Away OPS .887</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">First half SLG %: .502 Second Half: .518</span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">He was not helped that much by Fulton County Stadium in Atlanta, or Turner Field for that matter. His OPS of 77 at Turner Field is one of his lowest marks; only Dodger Stadium is lower as far as stadiums in which he played more than 50 games. McGriff's calling cards were durability and consistency. His hitting numbers are also damaged by the large home run totals of the steroid era, as McGriff's steady contribution of .284-32-102 looks small compared to the numerous 40 HR and 130 RBI seasons of other players. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><b><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></b></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><b><u><br /></u></b></span></span>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I would have to say no, as he probably is not the best first baseman who is eligible and has not been inducted. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u style="color: #222222;">11. How many MVP</u></strong><strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u> type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP? If not, how often did he come close?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">McGriff finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 4 times and never won the award. According to WAR, in 1989 he was the most productive hitter in the AL (6.7 WAR) but finished finished 6th. His teammate, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=bellge02,bellge01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">George Bell</a></strong>, finished 4th......because he had 104 RBI to McGriff's 92. In 1993, McGriff finished 4th. I can't say that McGriff ever deserved an MVP award. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">He was awarded the silver slugger award in 1989, 1992-93. He is still the last NL player to lead the league with fewer than 40 HR, with 35 for the Padres in 1992. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">McGriff started three AS games and was selected for 5 total. He was the MVP of the 1994 game, as his bottom of the 9th 2 run HR off <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithle02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Lee Smith</a></strong> tied the game, eventually won on a <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aloumo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Moises Alou</a></strong> double in the 10th. Only one hall of fame first baseman was selected 5 or fewer all star games, but <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/greenha01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Hank Greenberg</a></strong> was selected 5 times in 13 seasons and lost three full seasons and parts of two others to military service. Jeff Bagwell appeared in only 4 ASG, one blot on his hall resume. </span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">When McGriff made his best showing in the MVP vote, the AS 1B for the NL were <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/galaran01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Andres Galarraga</a></strong>, Gregg Jeffries and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/krukjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">John Kruk</a></strong>. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">No. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">In a sign of the free agent times, McGriff is one of two players to hit 30 HR in a season for five different teams. He hit the first HR in the Skydome, and is one of the few players to lead both the NL and AL in HR during their careers. McGriff is one of the first "deadline deals" in the ESPN era to pan out, as the 1993 Braves needed a power hitting lefty and McGriff raked after the trade. He, more than any other player, made baseball in Tampa Bay respectable when he came home in 1998. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Plus, Tom Emanski. No person of my age (40) can think of ESPN in the early 1990s without that damn commercial. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I should think so, as McGriff was never tainted by accusations of PEDs and outside the game is a large part of the Tampa community. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">The average career WAR for a hall of fame first baseman is 65.7. Fred McGriff is at 52.6, behind the following players: <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clarkwi02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Will Clark</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/olerujo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">John Olerud</a></strong>, Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/heltoto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Todd Helton</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hernake01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Keith Hernandez</a></strong>. First base is a far over-represented position in the hall, but I do think that McGriff would certainly not shame the hall if he were inducted. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">The problem is the ballot that McGriff appears on. In his first year of eligibility, the other first timers to get enough votes to stay on were <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alomaro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Roberto Alomar</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larkiba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Barry Larkin</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=martied01,martin002edg,martin003edg&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Edgar Martinez</a></strong>. The next year, Jeff Bagwell and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmera01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Rafael Palmeiro</a></strong> showed up, joining McGriff and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgwima01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mark McGwire</a></strong> in a very crowded field as first base. I would argue that 2012 was McGriff's year, and it was his highest vote percentage (23.9%) but the voters were still trying to decide what to do with the steroid era players. Add in the idea that Barry Larkin was the best candidate and you still had several first baseman/power hitters to vote on (Mattingly, Bagwell, Martinez, Murphy) and McGriff got lost in the shuffle. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">McGriff may get there, but it may take the Vets Committee to do it. He is worthy, just not as worthy as some of the other players at his position on the ballot. Voting for 10 players is rough, and picking two first baseman is a rougher job still.</span></span><br />
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-72465549771199891402013-12-20T14:11:00.000-08:002013-12-20T14:11:45.870-08:00The Keltner List: Edgar Martinez<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
I was lucky enough to move to the Northwest in time to see Edgar Martinez at the end of his career. I immediately realized the greatness of Dave Niehaus and to this day remain a closet Mariner fan, but would I vote for Martinez for the hall of fame?<br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez suffers in this first and most difficult question in that he spent 1463 games of his career at DH. Martinez was a third baseman from 1989-1994 and a DH thereafter. He was considered the best DH in the AL in the late 1990s, but not the best player. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">One of the Great Questions of the Universe is this: "How did the Mariners NOT win a World Series between 1995 and 2001?" There are multiple reasons, the best being:</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">1. They could never find a left fielder. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=griffke02,griffke01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Ken Griffey</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/buhneja01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jay Buhner</a></strong> were excellent at their spots. In left it was a revolving door featuring the likes of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=colemvi01,colema003vin&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Vince Coleman</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hillgl01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Glenallen Hill</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/amarari01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Rich Amaral</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/javiest01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Stan Javier</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/henderi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Rickey Henderson</a></strong>.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I mean, Griffey left and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/camermi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mike Cameron</a></strong> became Griffey-lite, Ichiro arrives like a tornado that spits line drives and the Mariners have a 116 win season with <i>8 players starting games in left field. </i>Listen, I love <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=martial03,martial01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Al Martin</a></strong> and was thrilled when he came up with the Pirates. But in 2001 he was 33 years old with bad legs and hit .240...for a team that won 116 games. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">2. The bullpen.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">3. The Yankees and the Indians. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">That team had several great players (and yes, I would include Buhner on that list) and Martinez was a cornerstone. On a team with Griffey, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=rodrial01,rodrig011ale&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Alex Rodriguez</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=johnsra05,johnsra04,johnsra03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Randy Johnson</a></strong> and Ichiro, Martinez was not considered the best player on the team. Following the 1995 season, though, Martinez was its soul. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">If the position is the DH, yes on both counts. There were DH's that hit more home runs, had gaudier numbers, but it the position is designated <i>hitter</i>. Outside of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Albert Pujols</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=martied01,martin002edg,martin003edg&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Edgar Martinez</a></strong> is the best right handed hitter I have ever seen. Even when he was old, it seemed like the line drives Martinez hit had extra. He was not a large man (6'0, 175-185 lbs) but his wrists were incredible. He was patient, and he hit gap shots in the Kingdome that would still be rolling if not for the wall. In 1992, and from 1995-2001, Martinez was the best DH in the AL, making him the best DH in baseball. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Before 1995, the Mariners had two winning seasons in franchise history. On August 23rd, the Mariners were 11.5 games out of first with a record of 54-55. The Mariners won 20 of their last 29 games to tie with the Angels and force a playoff. The M's thumped <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/langsma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mark Langston</a></strong> 9-1 to go to the postseason. Martinez hit well in September (.308/.387/.505) and went 2-3 in the playoff. Gar probably kept the Mariners alive that season, as he won his first batting title. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Then came the classic five game division series against the Yankees; Martinez was a machine and drove in 10 runs in five games. It is fitting that the best hitter for the Mariners (.571, 2 HR, .667 OBP) drive home the tying and winning runs with The Double in the 11th inning of game 5 to win the game for Randy Johnson, who pitched three innings of relief. This is still the most exciting play in Mariner history, and any Mariners fan can hear Dave Niehaus going absolutely beserk (I DON'T BELIEVE IT! IT JUST CONTINUES!).</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez hit poorly in the 1995 ALCS. In 1997, Martinez went 3-16 in the ALDS but two of those hits were HR. In the 2001 ALDS, Martinez broke a game 1 tie in the 10th inning of game one with a HR, setting the stage for a Mariners sweep. In 1997, Martinez posted a 1.037 OPS in September and October as the M's won their division by six games after being tied on August 5th.</span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>5. Was he good enough to contribute past his prime?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez led the AL in RBIs at age 37 (somewhat a function of his team), was elected to his last all star team at age 40 and won a silver slugger award at DH that same year. Martinez is a great case of a very good player waiting for the rest of his team. All of his 100 RBI seasons come after the age of 30. Of course, Martinez did not become a full time player until he was 27 years old. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">No. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Of Martinez top 10 comps, none are in the hall of fame. Many will get votes (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=willibe02,willibe01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bernie Williams</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rolensc01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Scott Rolen</a></strong>) some didn't do very well (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clarkwi02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Will Clark</a></strong> got 4.4% in 2006, Jon Olerud 0.7% in 2011). It is to be honest, not a very exciting list. Clark should have got more consideration than he did, in my opinion.</span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>8. Do the players number meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez is at a 50 on hall of fame standards, right at the level of the average hall of famer. He is at 132 on the hall monitor, which is very respectable. His monitor score is the same as <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ortizda01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">David Ortiz</a></strong>, who passed Martinez' record for RBIs from a DH in 2011. </span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez is a player who is hurt by having played in the steroid era. In 2000, Martinez hit a career high 37 HR; 4 of the players ahead of him on the leaderboard are known or suspected users of PEDs. Martinez was a line drive doubles hitter playing in a time that awarded and played to the long ball. Martinez was helped by playing in the Kingdome, and won his two batting titles there, with his OPS in the Kingdome being roughly 10% higher than his career mark. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Looking at his splits, Martinez was consistent: .906 OPS on Grass, .967 on turf, .313 high leverage situations, .313 in medium and .309 in low leverage, a .900 OPS in every month of his career except April. .311 BA at home, .312 on the road. The man could just flat out hit. That sort of consistency for a period of years was lost in the scramble to new and greater HR totals in the 1990s and early 2000s.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez was also a full time DH for 10 seasons, which in the minds of some voters does not make him a hall of famer. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/molitpa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Paul Molitor</a></strong> was a full time DH for 8 seasons, and he is a hall of famer. Molitor played over 700 games at 3B as a league average player in the field. Martinez played 549 games at 3B as a slightly less than league average player, one who got to a lot of balls and made a lot of errors. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I would argue no.</span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>11. How many MVP</u></strong><strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u> type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP Award? If not, how often did he come close?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez never won an MVP an finished in the top 10 twice and in the top 20 three other times. He was the silver slugger recipient four times, once at 3B and three times at DH.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">In 1995, Martinez finished third behind <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vaughmo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mo Vaughn</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Albert Belle</a></strong>. Both Belle and Martinez were more deserving than Vaughn. Martinez had more doubles (52-28), won the batting title, led the league in OBP and OPS, scored more runs (121-98) and had more hits in 40 fewer at bats. Oh yeah, he also struck out 63 fewer times than Vaughn. However, Belle hit 50 HR and Vaughn played in Boston.</span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez made the all star team 7 times, starting at DH four times. In 1999, he was kept off by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmera01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Rafael Palmeiro</a></strong> but wrecked havoc on the AL in the second half of the season to the tune of a 1.015 OPS. Seven is a respectable number for a hall of fame player, and four starts is the same amount as <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Craig Biggio</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riceji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jim Rice</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/parkeda01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Dave Parker</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santoro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Ron Santo</a></strong>. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>13.If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">The team would contend, I think. I don't think it would win. I REALLY would love to see a 1995 Martinez on one of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/herzowh01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Whitey Herzog</a></strong>'s teams. That would be absolutely outrageous; Coleman on second, McGee on first and here is Martinez, one of the best gap hitters in baseball. I sense a Strat-o-Matic season coming on!</span></span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez is the most beloved man ever to play for the Seattle Mariners; grown men cry when they speak of Papi. That 1995 Mariner team solidified the place of major league baseball in the Pacific Northwest. For years before that season, there were people who argued that MLB could not survive in Seattle. The late Dave Niehaus mentions this on the youtube video of his 10 Best Mariner Memories. He was a key contributor to the team with the most regular season wins in baseball history. </span><br />
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">While <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/davisal01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Alvin Davis</a></strong> is "Mr. Mariner", Martinez was and is a steady contributor to the Seattle community. His charity work earned him the 2004 <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Roberto Clemente</a></strong> Award. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I would vote for Martinez. He played clean, was a great citizen and a wonderful hitter. He may not have the false qualifier of 500 HR, but his career adjusted OPS of 147 is tied with four hall of famers and is in the top 45 marks of all time. A career mark of that level is excellent. His production was done at a time of very high offensive output, but the adjusted OPS mark does not lie. I would think that Martinez, with good eyes, quick wrists and the ability to spray line drives into the gaps could be marked down for a .295 average, 35-45 doubles and 15-20 HR every year in any decade since 1920 (with some time out in the 1960s). Before the DH, Martinez would have been hidden away at first or third and been allowed to hit the crap out of everything for 10-12 years before the pitchers mutinied. </span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Martinez suffers from the Seattle management. He spent parts of four seasons in triple AAA, playing 276 games and hitting .344 with an OPS of.944. He struck out 108 times in 950 AB and drew 182 walks. In 1986, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/preslji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jim Presley</a></strong> had his best year as a Mariner (.265, 27 HR, 107 RBI) and for the next two seasons the Seattle management waited around for him to do it again. He did hit 24 HR in 1987, but that power came with an OBP south of .300 with 157 Ks. In 1988, Presley had an OPS of .635. In 1989, Presley sank to 12 HR, 21 BB in 390 AB and an OBP of .275. This is the man who kept Martinez off third base for two seasons. To be fair, in 65 games in '89 Martinez was at best average. And in 1989, Martinez was overshadowed by the 19 year old Ken Griffey Jr and Buhner. That is the story of Gar's career; outside of Seattle, he was overshadowed by The Kid, Bone, The Big Unit and Ichiro. He was a great player, for all that. </span></span></div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-11423447886562663072013-12-16T09:31:00.001-08:002013-12-16T09:31:45.662-08:00The Keltner List: Roger Clemens 1984-1997<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Just as with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmera01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Rafael Palmeiro</a></strong>, and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgwima01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mark McGwire</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Roger Clemens</a></strong> is one of the poster children for the steroid era that appear on the ballot for the Hall of Fame this year. For Bonds, I dropped every season from his career after he was suspected of being on the juice and sent him through the list developed by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=jamesbi02,jamesbi01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bill James</a></strong>.<br />
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I will now do this for Clemens, going on the assumption that Brian McNamee's statements are correct. Regardless of Clemens being found not guilty of obstruction of justice in 2012, the assumption of steroid use clouds Clemens after 1998. The big issue for many people is that these players cheated to enhance their already gaudy numbers and a good number of baseball records were broken because of it; because of this, they are not hall of famers and should not be elected. This is misguided. In the absence of any solid statistical formula to determine <i>to what effect the PEDs enhanced performance</i> one cannot throw out the whole career of the player in question. We as a community know something happened, but what effect that had on the raw statistical measurements of the players in question leaves us to measure a player's candidacy based on those seasons wherein people can reasonably assume he was clean. Following McNamee's turgid testimony, I will consider Clemens candidacy using the seasons before 1998. </div>
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<b><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></b></div>
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It can be argued that Clemens was considered one of, if not the, top pitchers in baseball.</div>
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<b><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></b></div>
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In the late 1980s, it was either he or <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boggswa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Wade Boggs</a></strong>. If you picked a player to build a team around from those two, it would have been Clemens without doubt. From 1986-1990, Clemens looked like the second coming of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ryanno01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Nolan Ryan</a></strong>, but with more wins.</div>
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<b><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></b></div>
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Between 1986 and 1992, Clemens was the best pitcher in the American League year in and year out. He led the league in wins twice, ERA four times, strikeouts twice and SO/BB ratio four times. Clemens posted an ERA over the league average in 1984, and then never did so again. I would go as far as to say that Clemens was the best pitcher in baseball during that period. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hershor01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Orel Hershiser</a></strong> may have been better in 1988, and Eckersley got a lot of attention, but Clemens was the best pitcher in baseball before <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Greg Maddux</a></strong> took the mantle. </div>
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong></div>
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">The Red Sox made the playoffs in 1986, 1988, 1990 and 1995. For lesser pitchers, Clemens performance in 9 post season games (1-2, 3.88 ERA, 1.221 WHIP) was average to above average. In 1988, Clemens pitched six solid innings against the A's, then gave up a 3 run homer in the 7th for a no-decision. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"></span> </div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">In 1986, Clemens went 4-0 in September and October. In 1988, Clemens was 15-5 at the end of July. He then lost five straight decisions (with an ERA of 7.33) but came back to pitch pretty well in September as the Sox held on. In 1990, the Sox finished 2 games ahead of the Blue Jays, and Clemens won all six starts he made in August, including a 1-0 shutout of the Jays on August 25th. Going into a three games series beginning September 28th, the Sox won two of three against the Jays with Clemens winning his first start in three weeks.....the real reason was <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brunato01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tom Brunansky</a></strong>'s four HR in two games, including a game winner in the 12th inning on the 28th. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><b><u>5. Was he good enough to contribute past his prime?</u></b></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Clemens won his 4th <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Cy Young</a></strong> Award at age 34 in his first year with the Blue Jays. I would answer yes to this question.</span></div>
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">No, but he and Maddux are the best pitchers not in the hall of fame. </span></div>
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong></div>
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After his age 34 season in 1997, Clemens had 10 pitchers with a similarity score over 870. Five are in the Hall, 3 (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=martipe02,martipe03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Pedro Martinez</a></strong>, Maddux, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/glavito02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tom Glavine</a></strong>) will be, one was a good professional pitcher (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/welchbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bob Welch</a></strong>) and the last had his career destroyed by drugs (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/goodedw01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Dwight Gooden</a></strong>). That is damn good company for any pitcher. Clemens' closest comps, all with a score over 900 are <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/seaveto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tom Seaver</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gibsobo01,gibsobo02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bob Gibson</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maricju01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Juan Marichal</a></strong> and Gooden.</div>
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<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>8. Do the players number meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><b><u> </u></b><br />
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<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Here are Clemens' stats from 1984-1997:</span><br />
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<tr><td style="border: 0.5pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 62.7pt;" valign="top" width="83"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">W-L</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">G</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">GS</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">CG</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">SHO</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">IP</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">H</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">ER</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">BB</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">SO</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">SO/9</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-top-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-top-width: 0.5pt; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 37pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">ERA</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td></tr>
<tr><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 62.7pt;" valign="top" width="83"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">213-118</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">417</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">416</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">109</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">41</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">3040</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">2563</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">1003</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">924</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">2882</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 36.95pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">8.53</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-bottom-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-bottom-width: 0.5pt; border-right-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-right-width: 0.5pt; border-style: none solid solid none; padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 37pt;" valign="top" width="49"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">2.97</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
For BBRef's hall of fame standards, Clemens scores 56.85, rounded up to 57. This places him even with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/perryga01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Gaylord Perry</a></strong>, Juan Marichal and ahead of pitchers such as <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmeji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jim Palmer</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fordwh01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Whitey Ford</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jenkife01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Fergie Jenkins</a></strong>. The only pitchers in history over that 57 mark that are not in the Hall of Fame are Pedro Martinez and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=johnsra05,johnsra04,johnsra03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Randy Johnson</a></strong>, but nether of them are yet eligible for election.<br />
<br />
On the hall of fame monitor he scores a 162, with 100 being an average hall of famer and over 130 being a likely hall of famer.<br />
<br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">The one thing I would point out about Clemens is his walk rates. For someone who piled up K's, Clemens had excellent SO/BB rates. In 1988, Clemens struck out 291 hitters but walked only 62. This allowed the younger Clemens to go very deep in games quite often, leading the league in shutouts five times between 1984 and 1997 and complete games three times. Clemens did not give up a lot of hits and you could not wait for him to get wild; he just wouldn't. </span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Along those lines, it is interesting that Clemens' rate of BB/9 was substantially higher after 1996:</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Pre 1996: 750 BB in 2533+ IP =2.66 BB</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Post 1996: 830 BB in 2383+ IP = 3.13 BB</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">What this means, I do not know. </span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></span>
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">I would still pick Bonds here, and I would also pick Maddux over the 1984-97 Clemens.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></span>
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>11. How many </u></strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #888888; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank"><span style="color: #993300;"><strong>Cy Young</strong></span></a><strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u> type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an Cy Young Award? If not, how often did he come close?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Clemens won CYAs in 1986,1987, 1991 and 1997. He was second to Bob Welch's fluke 27 wins in 1990 but was a demonstrably better pitcher and should have won the award. Clemens finished third in the vote in 1992 as Eckersley saved 51 games. Eck, Clemens and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mussimi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mike Mussina</a></strong> would have been excellent choices that year. In other words, if Welch doesn't have a career year for a very good team in 1990, Clemens wins four CYA in six years. That is Maddux and Koufax territory. </span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Clemens was the AL MVP in 1986 and finished in the top 10 in the voting three times. </span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></span>
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Clemens made six all star appearances between 1984 and 1997 and started the 1986 game. He did not make the team in 1987 but won the CYA. He was 12-3 after the all star break. He was the MVP of the 1986 ASG.</span><br />
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span>
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u><br /></u></strong>
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">If he is the ace of the staff and the best player on the team, I should think so. </span><br />
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span>
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history</u></strong><span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">?</span><br />
<span style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;">Clemens struck out 20 hitters in a game twice and remains the only pitcher to accomplish this feat. In 1986, he won his first 14 decisions and no one has done that since. </span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, Palatino Linotype, Palatino, serif;"><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><br /></span></span>
<strong style="background-color: #fff9ee; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><u>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<br />
On Oct 10, 1990 Clemens was ejected from game four of the ALCS after walking <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/randowi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Willie Randolph</a></strong> in the second inning. On the mound, Clemens was always feisty and exhibited poor judgment at times, even before the Piazza incidents. His off field problems are not limited to suspected PED use, as there is evidence of quite a few extra-marital affairs, including a sleazy attachment of some sort to an underage country singer.<br />
<br />
I would be hard pressed to not vote for Clemens for the Hall of Fame, based on his performance pre-1998. Post 1998, I would be hesitant to vote for him not because of the suspected PEDs but for the constant bending over by the Astros and Yankees to appease Clemens' ego and his off the field activities with multiple women. I'm prudish like that; Clemens just oozes sleaze. In any case, discount post-1998 stuff and he is still a hall of famer. Doesn't mean you have to like the guy. Bonds and Clemens are quite instructive in what makes the great players great. They have ability, vast ego and a lot of drive. This makes them successful, disliked and willing to push themselves through whatever means available. Again, unless there is some statistical analysis that quantifies the effects of PEDs on baseball coupled with a concrete list of those who used the stuff, baseball is in a black hole of craziness of its own making.<br />
<br />
To me, what separates Clemens and Bonds as hall of fame players is dominance. Did their egos or whatever or just crummy decision making drive them to do PEDs? Did the idea of having a lot of fringe players hit home runs piss them off? Who knows? They were dominant players <i>before</i> the PED use (if there was, in the case of Clemens); judge them on that. Was <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sosasa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Sammy Sosa</a></strong> in 1992 or 1994 one tenth the player that Bonds was? Absolutely not. Was Clemens the best pitcher in baseball for a period of almost six years? Absolutely. Vote for them based on what was clean, or develop some way to normalize the numbers.<br />
<br /></div>
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</div>
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-70824749966507593832013-12-12T07:17:00.000-08:002013-12-12T07:17:00.990-08:00The Keltner List: Curt Schilling<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Next up on the countdown is <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schilcu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Curt Schilling</a></strong>. If there was a font that screamed "cheesy 1980s radio voice" I would use it. <em>Stay tuned to WAZS where the third caller gets free tickets to the Cochise County Fair reunion show of Red Rider!</em> Sheesh.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Schilling arrived in the late 1980s (which seems like a long time ago) after a few average to above average seasons in Triple A. Believe it or not, he was traded to the Orioles along with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/anderbr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Brady Anderson</a></strong> for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boddimi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mike Boddicker</a></strong> in 1988, who is my distant cousin. I don't think that Schilling was ever regarded as the best <em>player </em>in baseball, but best pitcher? That's another question.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Schilling was used as a reliever early in his career, and was not made a starter until the 1992 season. Schilling was probably the best pitcher for a few years with the Phillies, but not the best player. Again, was he the best pitcher on his team? With the Phillies he absolutely was from 1995 to his trade to the D-Backs in 2000. With the Red Sox, he was the ace of the staff for two seasons. Hell, I would take him as the best player on those Phillies teams. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
By the late 1990s, Schilling was on the short list of the best pitcher in the NL, a list dominated by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Greg Maddux</a></strong> and future teammate <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=martipe02,martipe03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Pedro Martinez</a></strong>. I would have put him in third or fourth on that list. In some ways, I think Schilling's status as a pitcher is impacted negatively because of his teammates. Schilling was on teams with Pedro Martinez and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=johnsra05,johnsra04,johnsra03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Randy Johnson</a></strong>, both pitchers a shade better than Schilling, This is not to say for a minute that Schilling was not a great pitcher, he was most years after 1997; he shared the spotlight with great pitchers and hall of fame talents. Schilling was usually one of the best pitchers in his league in 1992-93, 1997-1999, 2001-04. However, he may not have been as good as one of his teammates.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Schilling is best known for the "Bloody Sock", but he had plenty of chances in the postseason before that. Schilling made his first World Series start in Game 1 of the 1993 series. Schilling got hit pretty hard and gave up 6 ER in 6+ innings. After that? Here are the totals for Schilling's next 6 series starts:<br />
<br />
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">Games</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">W-L</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">IP</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">H</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">R</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">ER</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 54.85pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">BB</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">SO</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">6</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">4-0</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">41 2/3 </span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">25</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">6</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">5</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">8</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">40</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--EndFragment--><strong><u></u></strong><br />
Schilling made four World Series appearances, and did not lose a game over the last three. That line is Gibson-esque. Overall, Schilling recorded 11 post season wins.<br />
<br />
2001 with the Diamondbacks typifies Schilling. The DBacks won the west by 2 games over the Giants. Schilling gave up six runs on 10 hits in a game on Sept 18 with the Rockies. For the rest of August and September, Schilling was 9-1 with a WHIP of 0.974 and 94 Ks in 77 innings. Many times he got popped for one game, but then would just be dominant. In 2001-2 Schilling was 6-2 against the Giants with 72 Ks in 60 innings. He did not fare as well against the Yankees, but a 7-8 record against them wasn't bad. Schilling also carried a winning record against winning teams.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>5. Was he good enough to contribute past his prime?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Schilling recorded three twenty win seasons after the age of 33, and won 15 games at age 39. He only had one subpar season after age 35 (2005) due to injuries. That qualifies as contributing.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No, but Schilling is on the short list of the best <em>pitchers</em> not in the hall of fame. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Only two of Schilling's comps are hall of famers: <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/drysddo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Don Drysdale</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vanceda01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Dazzy Vance</a></strong>. Both fit Schilling's profile of a hard throwing right hander who struck out men in bunches. His closest comps are <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=brownke01,brownke04,brownke03,brown-011kev&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Kevin Brown</a></strong> (920) and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/welchbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bob Welch</a></strong> (900), both VERY high comp scores. Brown got 2.1% of the voting on his only year on the hall ballot in 2011. Brown, of course, got pummeled in game 7 of the 2004 ALCS, the <em>day after</em> Schilling won the Bloody Sock game. Brown's career ended the next year after a 4-7 season with the Yankees. Why did Brown only get 2.1%? Three things, in all likelihood:<br />
<br />
1. Brown won 20 games once. Voters like big seasons. <br />
2. Brown did not pitch well in the World Series (0-3 in four starts with an ERA over 6)<br />
3. Most writers thought he was kind of a jerk, and he had a reputation as something of a mercenary.<br />
<br />
Welch looked like a phenom in 1978 with the Dodgers, winning seven games, throwing three shutouts and nabbing three saves in one season at age 21. Welch's career was nearly derailed by alcoholism (a tale he tells very well in the book <em>Five o' clock Comes Early) </em>but he came back to win 57 games in three seasons with the A's teams of the late 80s. He is a good comp for Schilling because of his career trajectory; a few seasons where it was unclear where the arm would fit, a career lull in the middle and great heights at the end. In 2000, Welch got 0.2% of the vote for the Hall. His heights were not as great nor as long lasting as Schillings. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>8. Do the players number meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Schilling scores a 171 on the hall monitor, with a 46 on the standards. Both are quite respectable, with Schilling ranking 34th all time on the monitor score. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
I think Schilling was better than his records, simply because of the attitude he brought to the mound. He was one of those athletes that are called "leaders", which is usually bull shit. With Schilling it wasn't, as he went out and won games. It is no small coincidence that the 1992 and 1993 Phillies and the 2004 Red Sox were cast as "working class" teams who liked to drink beer, have fun and win ball games. Schilling was a leader on both of those teams, and it was a wonderful sight to see. <br />
<br />
There are four pitchers in my life I would watch pitch on TV or live if I had the chance, just because of what they did:<br />
<br />
1. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wakefti01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tim Wakefield</a></strong>: probably the last great knuckleballer we will ever see, which is awful. Why doesn't someone go back to mixing in a knuckler here and there like a lot of the old timers did in the 1930s and 1940s? It would work! Got a 90 MPH fastball and a crummy change up? Toss a knuckler up there and see what happens. <br />
2. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ryanno01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Nolan Ryan</a></strong>: he was 1000 years old when I was in grade school and did not retire until I was in college. Good lord, he threw hard for a long time. I have no earthly idea how he did it. "Awesome" is a word most overused these days, but Ryan was in that he inspired wonder and no small amount of fear.<br />
3. Pedro Martinez: attitude and throwing inside. Not many people do that anymore, and Martinez was one of the better guys at throwing inside with control. My dad used to tell me stories about <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maglisa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Sal Maglie</a></strong> when I was a kid, and Martinez made me think of him.<br />
4. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/moyerja01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jamie Moyer</a></strong>: again, how did he do that? Moyer always made me happy on the mound, simply because he was the anti-strongman. His changeup leisurely knocked down large men with tree trunk legs that dominated baseball in the 1990s. He was the David in a Goliath Steroid game writ large, and it was beautiful. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>11. How many </u></strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank"><span style="color: #993300;"><strong>Cy Young</strong></span></a><strong><u> type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an Cy Young Award? If not, how often did he come close?</u></strong><br />
<br />
He was the Co-MVP of the 2001 World Series with Randy Johnson. Schilling never won a CYA. He finished second three times and fourth in the voting once. This seems odd to me, but looking at the years involved, it makes sense. Here are the winners in Schilling's seven highest WAR seasons:<br />
<br />
1992: Schilling was 14-11, had 26 relief appearances and 16 starts, 4 shutouts, 2 saves, 10 CG and an ERA of 2.35. Greg Maddux won the award that year and Schilling did not make the top 5.<br />
<br />
1997: Schilling's first "big" year. Led league in Ks, wins 17 games. Winner Pedro Martinez also won 17 games, and he and Schilling were the only pitchers in the NL to strike out 300 hitters. Martinez had an ERA a run lower than Schillings. Schilling finished 4th, behind <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/neaglde01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Denny Neagle</a></strong>, but should have been third behind Martinez and Maddux. <br />
<br />
1998: Schilling went 15-14 and received zero votes, even though he led the league in IP, K and CG. He was as good, if not better, than the winner <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/glavito02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tom Glavine</a></strong>, and certainly better than <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smoltjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">John Smoltz</a></strong> or the recently-traded-to-the-Astros Randy Johnson. <br />
<br />
2001: Second to Randy Johnson. Schilling and Johnson combined to win 43 games and strikeout <em>645</em> hitters. The only pitcher better than Schilling in the NL (and the game that year) was Johnson.<br />
<br />
2002: If anything, Johnson and Schilling were <em>better</em> in 2002. 11.26 K/9 over 71 starts with 49 wins. For the second straight year, the only pitcher in baseball better than Schilling was his teammate.<br />
<br />
2004: Second to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santajo02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Johan Santana</a></strong>, which was a legitimate vote. Both won 20 games, but Santana's peripherals were better. <br />
<br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
<strong><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Schilling made six AS teams and started two games. He is in good company, sharing that number with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmeji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jim Palmer</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grovele01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Lefty Grove</a></strong>. In Groves' defense, they didn't have an All Star game until he had led the league in Ks seven times and won an MVP award. A good rule of thumb for pitchers is 7 appearances, and Schilling is on the cusp.<br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
<strong><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
If Schilling is his teams best pitcher, that team would contend for a division title but probably not a pennant. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history</u></strong>?<br />
<br />
Schilling was a central character in Boston's first world series victory in 86 years and was a vital piece of two other championships. His performance in game 6 of the 2004 ALCS, coming as it did with the Red Sox pushing for an historic comeback, the ESPN fanned rivalry and the feeling that if Schilling did his thing there was no way in hell the Red Sox were <em>not</em> going to win a game 7, is historic. Even if the Red Sox and Yankee rivalry wasn't for about 30 years before the 1990s. I think every baseball fan in the Universe owes that team a debt of gratitude in that we will not have to hear about the Curse of the Bambino ever again. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Schilling certainly does, giving generously of his time to various charities and doing yeoman's work in support of ALS research. Business troubles aside, Schilling was an excellent teammate, positive clubhouse presence and has put his celebrity to good use in the wider world.<br />
<br />
If anything, Schilling makes me dislike <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morrija02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jack Morris</a></strong>' candidacy a little more. Let's compare the two in the World Series, upon which much of the Morris candidacy rests:<br />
<br />
<table style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-layout-alt: fixed; padding: 0pt 5.4pt;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="border: 0.5pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span><br /></div>
</td><td style="border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">Games</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">W</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">IP</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">H</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">ER</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">BB</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.15pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">SO</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td></tr>
<tr><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">Morris</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">7</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">4</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">51 2/3</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">44</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">17</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">18</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.15pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">40</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<tr><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">Schilling</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">7</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;">4</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">48</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">33</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">11</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.45pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">10</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</td><td style="border-color: currentColor rgb(0, 0, 0) rgb(0, 0, 0) currentColor; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; mso-border-bottom-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-left-alt: none; mso-border-right-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); mso-border-top-alt: 0.5000pt solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding: 0pt 5.4pt; width: 55.15pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="p0" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt; mso-spacerun: "yes";">43</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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</tbody></table>
<!--EndFragment--><br />
Schilling led the league in wins twice, Morris twice. Morris led the league in complete games once, Schilling four times. In 563 fewer innings, Schilling struck out 638 more hitters and walked <em>620 fewer than Morris</em>. Schilling made one more All Star team than Morris. If the argument for Morris centers on his place as a "Big Game" Pitcher, what to do with Schilling, whose post season record is every bit as good, made more all star games and won just as many titles as Morris? Schilling led his league in categories twice as often as Morris and scores higher in both the hall of fame monitor and standards. Schilling's seven year WAR, courtesy of BBref, is 49.0 to Morris' 32.8 Roughly, a peak Schilling was worth two more wins a year to his team than a peak Morris. I'll take Schilling.<br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-74738697716012846102013-12-10T20:04:00.002-08:002013-12-10T20:04:51.815-08:00The Keltner List: Alan Trammell<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Next up it's <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/trammal01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Alan Trammell</a></strong>, a great shortstop and one of my favorite players as a kid. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Trammell was regarded as an excellent shortstop, but not the best player in baseball. He was one of those players that did everything pretty well, so he was lost in the rush to look at one item that was done at a level above everyone else. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
<br />
If not, it was usually between he and <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gibsoki01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Kirk Gibson</a></strong>, as both had the capacity for .300 seasons with 20 HR and 20 SB. I will give the edge to Trammell as he was a shortstop. Trammell is one of the best Tigers of all time, and certainly the best shortstop in franchise history, beating out Donnie Bush easily. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Trammell suffers as a direct contemporary to <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithoz01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Ozzie Smith</a></strong> and <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=ripkeca01,ripkeca99&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Cal Ripken</a></strong>. Trammell is in the middle of this argument, not quite the defensive player that Smith was and not quite the offensive player that Ripken was. None of these players were as good as <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larkiba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Barry Larkin</a></strong> (yes, I even think Larkin was better than Ripken). Ripken was underrated defensively, as was Trammell. <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/yountro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Robin Yount</a></strong> is also in that talk. I would not peg him as the best shortstop in the game over his career, but in individual seasons he most certainly was (1987, 1984). Within his league, it was down to between he, Ripken and Yount. He was always in the discussion. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Trammell was MVP of the 1984 World Series, and played very well against the Royals during the ALCS. <br />
<br />
In 1987, Trammell slashed .417/.490/.677 in September and October as the Tigers took the AL East by two games over Toronto. For the year, he hit .340 against the Jays. The Tigers won 6 of their last nine games to overcome a 2.5 game deficit; Trammell posted an OPS of 1.087, scoring 6 runs with six extra base hits in those nine games. On October 3rd, Trammell singled home <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/walewji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Jim Walewander</a></strong> in the bottom of the 12th to win the game for the Tigers and put them in a 1 game lead over Toronto with 1 game remaining. The next day, <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/tananfr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Frank Tanana</a></strong> threw a shutout and <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/herndla01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Larry Herndon</a></strong> provided the offense in a 1-0 Tigers win. The next year, Trammell was injured in September and not his usual self.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>5. Was he good enough to contribute past his prime?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Trammell was beset by injuries in his later years, playing in 100 games only twice after he turned 32. The broken ankle he suffered in 1992 left him a different player. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No, but he is closer to Bonds than most.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
According to James' formulation, only two players are "truly similar" to Trammell: <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/renteed01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Edgar Renteria</a></strong> and Barry Larkin. Larkin is in the Hall and Renteria is not yet eligible. Of those players "similar" to Trammell, Larkin and <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sandbry01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Ryne Sandberg</a></strong> are in the Hall of Fame. Five of the players in Trammell's list are shortstops, and I would rate Larkin slightly above Trammell. Longtime double play partner <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/whitalo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Lou Whitaker</a></strong> is 5th on Trammell's list, right behind <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rolliji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Jimmy Rollins</a></strong>.<br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
<strong><u>8. Do the players number meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Trammell scores a 40 on the hall of fame standards and a 118 on the hall monitor. These are middle of the road figures. Compare his peak years to other shortstops, and Trammell is ahead of Larkin, <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boudrlo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Lou Boudreau</a></strong>, <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wallabo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Bobby Wallace</a></strong>, <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/seweljo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Joe Sewell</a></strong> and <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reesepe01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Pee Wee Reese</a></strong> according to JAWS. In total WAR, Trammell ranks 11th all time at shortstop, with all but two (<strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=rodrial01,rodrig011ale&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Alex Rodriguez</a></strong> and <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dahlebi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Bill Dahlen</a></strong>) in the Hall of Fame. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong><br />
<br />
In 1987, Trammell hit cleanup for the Tigers and produced his best offensive season. Trammell was an odd bird, as the "offensive" shortstops of the 1980s were large men. Trammell was 6'0 and listed at 165. Ripken was 4 inches taller and outweighed Trammell by 35 pounds. When Trammell first reached the majors his defense was below average; by the mid-80s he was an above average shortstop. He and Whitaker, along with Gibson, formed the core of a Tigers team that posted 11 consecutive winning seasons. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>11. How many MVP</u></strong><strong><u> type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP Award? If not, how often did he come close?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Trammell never won an MVP award, but finished 2nd in 1987. Trammell finished 21 points behind <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=bellge02,bellge01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">George Bell</a></strong> of the Blue Jays, which was a questionable vote. I would have gone with Trammell. He finished in the top ten in voting two other times (1988 and 1984).<br />
<br />
<strong><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Trammell made six all star teams, suffering as a direct contemporary to Cal Ripken. Being in competition with an all time great, however, has its place. Take Trammell's 1986 season: (.277/.347/.469) with an OPS of 120. 21 HR , 269 Total Bases....and he is not on the all star team. Trammell was worthy in 1986 and 1993 but was not selected. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>13.If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
Pre 1992 ankle injury, absolutely. A shortstop with 20 HR power and good speed? Sign me up.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Whitaker and Trammell spent their entire careers with one team, which had become exceedingly rare by the time they had reached the majors in the late 1970s. Whitaker and Trammell are the longest serving double play combination in major league history. Trammell was also credited to an extent by <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leylaji99.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Jim Leyland</a></strong> for providing professional guidance and example which bore fruit in the Tigers 2006 championship run. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
As far as I know. <br />
<br />
I would not hesitate to vote for Trammell for the Hall. I would rank him ahead of <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rizzuph01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Phil Rizzuto</a></strong>, <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jennihu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Hughie Jennings</a></strong> and <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/tinkejo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Joe Tinker</a></strong>, to name a few. Trammell suffers in comparison to Ozzie Smith and Cal Ripken, two of the most deserving hall of famers at his position. In this sense, he is not unlike <strong><a target="_blank" href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=raineti01,raineti02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com">Tim Raines</a></strong>. A great player, one of the very best at his position over the last 50 years, who is overshadowed by someone even better than he. If you look at Trammell's peak WAR, he is 8th all time among shortstops. At his peak, Trammell was one of the ten best in baseball history at his position, and was damn good for a while besides. </div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-22027727670489464982013-12-10T11:50:00.002-08:002013-12-10T11:50:41.811-08:00The Keltner List: Tommy John<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tommy John</a></strong> was a pitcher at one point, not a surgical procedure. Let's take a look at his career via James' Keltner List.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
In the late 1960s, Tommy John was considered quite a good pitcher but was never thought to be the best in baseball. In the 1980s, he was considered to be a medical marvel, but not the best pitcher in baseball. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
John played for quite a few teams. With the White Sox from 1965 to 1971, he was part of a team that included <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodwi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Wilbur Wood</a></strong>, and an aging <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aparilu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Luis Aparicio</a></strong>. In any given year on those teams, John could have been the best pitcher. After the 1971 season, the Sox traded John and another player to the Dodgers for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/allendi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dick Allen</a></strong>. Allen won the 1972 MVP for the Sox; John went 40-15 over the next three seasons. He was not the best player on those 1970s Dodger teams, nor was he the best pitcher on the early 80s Yankees, nor the mid 80s' Angels. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Throughout his career, John was never considered to be the best pitcher in baseball and was not in the discussion of the best pitcher in his league. Considering the length of his career, I find this strange. That he was a good starting pitcher, and considered as such, is beyond doubt. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
John pitched <em>quite</em> well in the playoffs. In league championship series, he posted a 2.07 ERA over 47 2/3 innings. He won four of five decisions. In the 1981 World Series John was excellent (with a little help from Greg Nettles) and had an ERA under one in two starts and a relief appearance. He was pulled after the 4th inning of game 6 by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lemonbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bob Lemon</a></strong> and the Dodgers proceeded to club <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/frazige01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">George Frazier</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=davisro02,davisro01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ron Davis</a></strong> for seven runs. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>5. Was he good enough to contribute past his prime?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
In 1963, Tommy John made his first start against the Angels and lost to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/chancde01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dean Chance</a></strong>. Starting for the Angels that day at shortstop was <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fregoji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jim Fregosi</a></strong>. In 1988, John started three games against the White Sox, managed by Jim Fregosi. <br />
<br />
Tommy John made his last start on May 25, 1989. The last two home runs he gave up were two <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schrobi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bill Schroeder</a></strong>. Schroeder was not yet five years old when Tommy John first appeared in a major league game. John won 51 games after the age of 40, but he did lose 60. More impressive is that he threw 1000 innings after he was 40. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Eight of the highest 10 players comparable to John are in the Hall of Fame. Of the other two, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/glavito02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tom Glavine</a></strong> probably will be and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kaatji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jim Kaat</a></strong> should be. Kaat is the most comparable to John in many ways. Both were tall, graceful lefties. Both threw good sinking fastballs. Both were productive pitchers into their late 30s and less so in their 40s. The big difference was Kaat was perhaps the best fielding pitcher in the history of baseball.<br />
<br />
Before his elbow injury, John was most similar to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sallesl01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Slim Sallee</a></strong>, a mainstay of the Cardinal rotation in the Dead Ball era. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>8. Do the players number meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
<br />
John scores a 112 on the hall monitor and 44 on the standards. He is right on the border.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong><br />
<br />
John got a <em>ton</em> of ground balls and lived and died by his ability to get a double play. He did tend to give up hits, and on teams where his infield defense was suspect he got hit hard. Look at the 1983 California Angels and their Total Zone Rating; the team is at -46 runs, including the +8 from <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boonebo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bob Boone</a></strong>. John's infield (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carewro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Rod Carew</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grichbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bobby Grich</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/burleri01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Rick Burleson</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/downibr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Brian Downing</a></strong>) were 21 runs below average.<br />
<br />
If the defense behind him was exceptional John was a killer. When he first got to the Dodgers, John had a young <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/ceyro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ron Cey</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bill Russell</a></strong> to field ground balls on the left side and he posted a 29-10 record. In winning 43 games between 1979 and 1980 in New York, John had <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dentbu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bucky Dent</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/nettlgr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Graig Nettles</a></strong>, not to mention <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/randowi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Willie Randolph</a></strong>. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>11. How many <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Cy Young</a></strong> type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an Cy Young Award? If not, how often did he come close?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
John never won a Cy Young but did finish second in the voting two times and in the top ten four times overall. In 1977 he was beat out by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carltst01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Steve Carlton</a></strong>. In 1979 he was fairly even with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/flanami01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mike Flanagan</a></strong>, but Flanagan's Orioles won the division over John's Yankees. John may not have been the best pitcher on his team that year, as <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/guidrro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ron Guidry</a></strong> finished third in the CY voting.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
John was named to four all star teams, a low number for a hall of famer. There are a few seasons (1969-1970) with the White Sox that John was worthy of an all star berth but did not receive one. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
I would say no.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history</u></strong>?<br />
<br />
In September of 1974, John went under the knife of LA Dodgers team physician Dr. Frank Jobe for a procedure called "ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction". Jobe replaced the UCL in John's left elbow with a ligament from John's wrist. John had pitched most of his career to that point with a damaged ligament. Jobe put his chances at a full recovery to pitching form at 1 in 100<br />
<br />
John did not return to pitching until 1976 at age 33. He won 10 games that season. John won 164 games post surgery and enjoyed all three of his 20 win seasons after the procedure now commonly called "Tommy John surgery." The impact of this on baseball over the last 30 years has been incalculable, having extended or saved dozens of careers. Jobe was honored by the hall of fame this last summer. <br />
<br />
It should be remembered that the decision to do this was John's, something that Dr. Jobe has always pointed out. At that point, Tommy John could have walked away. He was 31 years old, a 12 year MLB veteran with 124 wins, 28 shutouts and an all star berth to his credit, a very respectable career for any player. He didn't, and we are all beneficiaries to his decision and Dr. Jobe's steady hands. Jobe and John (sounds like a theater candy) have been very good friends ever since. <br />
<br />
The surgery was not performed again on a pitcher until 1985. In 2012, there were over 40 of these procedures performed.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<br />
I have not heard or read anything bad about him. In other words, I believe so. <br />
<br />
I am on the fence about Tommy John's playing career as being hall of fame caliber. I would select Jim Kaat over him, but he deserves some sort of recognition for the surgery which bears his name. Not because it prolonged his career, but because it gave so many other ballplayers (over 450) a chance to extend their careers. This act enriched the game greatly and advanced medical science along the way. Bob Costas recently mentioned on the <em>Dan Patrick Show</em> that a Buck O'Neil award would be possible for John, and I agree. He didn't have to do the surgery and the intense and gut wrenching rehab at a time when his own doctor thought he had a 1% chance of pitching again. He did, by extension allowing us to enjoy <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gagneer01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Eric Gagne</a></strong>'s changeup and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/strasst01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Stephen Strasburg</a></strong>'s overall brilliance to name a few. That kind of courage is laudable, especially when he could have walked off with something 99.8% of people do not have, a successful major league career. </div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-54008894616972606582013-12-08T10:45:00.003-08:002013-12-08T10:45:55.005-08:00The Keltner List: Ted Simmons<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
The Veterans Section of the Hall of Fame ballot has some interesting names. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=torrejo01,torre-000joe&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Joe Torre</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/coxbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bobby Cox</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larusto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tony LaRussa</a></strong> are most likely to be elected, and all three are worthy. To me, the three most interesting from a Hall perspective are <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tommy John</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/simmote01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ted Simmons</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=martibi02,martibi01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Billy Martin</a></strong>. These will be my posts for this week.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>1. Was he ever considered the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
I don't think so. Simmons was always considered a very talented hitter and a mediocre fielder. One of these is completely wrong, and it isn't the hitting. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Again, I am inclined to say no here but I might be wrong.. There were seasons where Simmons was the most valuable player for the Cardinals in the 1970s (1972-75 perhaps) and he was good enough behind the plate to force Joe Torre to third base. By 1971 Torre was playing both catcher and first base with Simmons platooning with him in 1970. Simmons was a switch hitter, which made the switch a little easier for the Cards. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No on both counts, as in the 1970s the best catcher in baseball was roughly 360 miles east down I-64. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/benchjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Johnny Bench</a></strong> was considered during the 1970s as one of the best catchers of all time. By the time Simmons got to the AL in 1981 he spent only two seasons as a full time catcher.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Simmons got to the playoffs only twice in his career (1981 and 1982) with the Brewers. He did not hit particularly well during the post season (.635 OPS over 19 games). In the '82 Series Simmons homered in the first two games then went 1-15 over the next five games with 1 RBI. A misplay in June of '82 nearly cost the Brewers the division title, as Simmons forgot how many outs there were and rolled the ball back to the mound after a strikeout. Both Oriole runners advanced and then scored to tie the game. The game was suspended and made up as a double header on the least weekend of the season. The Brewers got swept, but hung on to win the division by one game. <br />
<br />
Simmons did hit .346 with 6 HR after the break in 1973 as the Mets came back from a 5 game deficit on August 6 to win the division by a game and a half. The Cards tanked in August, at one point going 5-14. Simmons hit just as well as he did the rest of he season during the streak. Simmons did hit .375 against the Mets down the stretch but drove in only 4 runs with no extra base hits. <br />
<br />
In 1974 the Cards finished a close second to the Pirates, and Simba was a beast in September (.345/.395/.545). On Sept. 25th, Simmons doubled in two runs and scored another in the bottom of the 11th as the Cardinals came back to win 13-12 and take a 1/2 game lead over the Bucs. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>5. Was he a good enough player to contribute past his prime?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
In 1980, Simmons was shipped off to the Brewers. He was 30 years old and a man who caught 130 or more games 7 times in the previous 10 years. In other words, primed for a drop off. He dropped off in 1981 but made the All Star team anyway, but hit 23 HR in 1982 and was named to another All Star team in 1983. He finished up with three years as a pinch hitter for the Braves with a slash of .248/.323/.367 over 411 at bats. Simmons was still at least a part time catcher until 1983, but fell off pretty quickly. Catching a lot over a decade will do that to a player, but Simmons was still capable of some wicked line drives off the bench. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Simmons has six comps who are in the Hall of Fame, three of whom (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fiskca01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Carlton Fisk</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cartega01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Gary Carter</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/berrayo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Yogi Berra</a></strong>) are catchers. The others bespeak Simmons' offensive production and style: <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/tejadmi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Miguel Tejada</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/trammal01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Alan Trammell</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larkiba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Barry Larkin</a></strong>. Simmons was a line drive hitter good for 30-40 doubles and 15-25 HR a year. Simmons strongest comps for the period he was a full time catcher are <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rodriiv01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ivan Rodriguez</a></strong>, Gary Carter and Joe Torre, pretty damn good company. <br />
<br />
<strong><u></u></strong> <strong><u>8. Do the players number meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Simmons has a 44 on he Standards list and a Hall Monitor score of 124. Simmons is 11th all time in total WAR for catchers; 9 of them are in the hall and one of the other two (Rodriguez) is not eligible yet. Compared to other hall of fame catchers, Simmons is certainly worthy of induction.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>9.Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Simmons was intense and once got in a fight with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dennyjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">John Denny</a></strong> during a game. The knock on Simmons was that he could not throw. In <em>You're Missin' a Great Game</em>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/herzowh01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Whitey Herzog</a></strong> wrote that "Ted Simmons...had one major weakness as a ballplayer. Poor arm strength." (84)<br />
<br />
More from Herzog: "He did all the things that make a guy money...by today's standards, he's a star. But not everybody knows baseball." (86). For Herzog, catchers were about defense, and in Herzog's mind, Simmons and his "fluttery throws to second" were costing Cardinals games. Herzog wasted no time in shipping Simmons off to Milwaukee and replacing him with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/porteda02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Darrell Porter</a></strong>, Herzog's catcher from Kansas City. <br />
<br />
In any event, Simmons was at or above the league average for throwing out basestealers six times in the 1970s. Bill Deane, quoted in James' <em>Politics of Glory</em> (345-46) figured out that Simmons was run on more by his opponents, but Simmons, who was actually marginally better at throwing out runners than other catchers, turned this into a slight advantage for his team. <br />
<br />
Perhaps much of the stigma against Simmons in this regard comes from the 1975 season. In 1974, Simmons threw out 33% of baserunners and in 1976 threw out 44%. In 1975, he was successful only 26% of the time. His pitchers that year were a mixed bag at holding runners. John Denny and Hal Hrabosky were quite good over their careers, while <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/forscbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bob Forsch</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reedri01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Rick Reed</a></strong> were not. The changes in 1976 were the retirement of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gibsobo01,gibsobo02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bob Gibson</a></strong> and the departure of Rick Reed for the Phillies. Between Gibson and Reed, runners were successful on 34 of 41 steal attempts, and Simmons caught 33 of the 38 games with these pitchers. Take their starts out and Simmons CS% goes from 26 to 28.8%. Not great, but that is an impact. <br />
<br />
If there is a quibble on defense with Simmons, it should be that he was in the top 10 in errors as a catcher 9 times and led the NL in passed balls 3 times in six seasons. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></strong><br />
No.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>11. How many MVP type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP Award? If not, how often did he come close?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Simmons never won an MVP award and finished in the top 10 in the voting in 1975 and 1977, and in the top 20 five other times. 1977 may have been his best season (.318/.408/.500, 21 HR, 95 RBI). His 1980 season (21 HR, 98 RBI, 140 OPS+) earned him a silver slugger award.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Simmons was selected to 8 All Star teams and he started in 1978 and 1983. Out of the 18 catchers named to 8 or more ASG, eight are hall of famers, Ivan Rodriguez is not eligible, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=piazzmi01,piazza001mik&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mike Piazza</a></strong> should be in and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/parrila02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Lance Parrish</a></strong> deserves heavy consideration.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could his team win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
I'm inclined to say no. I'll let Herzog take this one: "In the Simmons Era, the Cards never finished first." (85). That may or may not be the fault of Simmons (it has more to do with the St. Louis management and some questionable trades) but he was not "a winner" until he got to Milwaukee and was surrounded by Yount, Molitor, Thomas and the rest of Harvey's Wallbangers. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history</u></strong>?<br />
<br />
Simmons was beloved in St. Louis, and was the GM for the Pirates in 1992-93. He wanted to trade <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong> before he 1992 season in Pittsburgh (we could not afford to sign him following the season) but Leyland threatened to quit. Simmons was the chief of player development and scouting for the Padres from 2000-03, and his record there was mixed.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>15. Did he uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Simmons contributed to an article for <em>Baseball Digest </em>in 1973 called "Losing Drives Me Crazy." Even Herzog thought that Simmons wanted to win and had a great attitude during a game. Simmons openly feuded with Cardinal management in 1976 and 1980 but was seen as a strong teammate. Simmons is pretty close to what the ol' timers would have called a "good baseball man." <br />
<br />
Simmons was not a great defensive catcher, threw erratically and did not block pitches in the dirt very well. He threw out a lot of base runners because a lot of runners tried to take advantage of his arm. <br />
<br />
But, he <em>did</em> catch three no hitters in his career. His triple slash with the Cardinals for <em>13 seasons</em> averaged .298/.366/.459. Toss in 13 HR and 71 RBI and that is a very valuable commodity. Simmons hit 20 home runs in the 1970s as many times as Carlton Fisk did, and Simmons was not recognized in his league because he was a direct contemporary to one of the two best catchers in the history of the game. I have no problem with Simmons being in the Hall. </div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-85554296203777594412013-12-03T13:24:00.001-08:002013-12-03T13:36:47.382-08:00The Keltner List: Jack Morris<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Since this is the last year that <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morrija02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jack Morris</a></strong> is eligible, I thought it right to put him through the Keltner List.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Not to my knowledge. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
I don't think so. The mid 1980s Tigers featured <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/whitalo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Lou Whitaker</a></strong>, Allan Trammell and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gibsoki01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Kirk Gibson</a></strong>. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alomaro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Roberto Alomar</a></strong> was probably the best player on the '92 championship Blue Jays, while the best player for the Twins was the late <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/puckeki01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Kirby Puckett</a></strong><br />
<br />
<strong><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
I don't think so. I think many would take <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/blylebe01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bert Blyleven</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/goodedw01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dwight Gooden</a></strong>, Brett Saberhagen, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Roger Clemens</a></strong> in the 1980s or Maddux and Glavine at the end of Morris' career. Morris never won a <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Cy Young</a></strong> Award, not that that automatically makes the winner the best in his league. <br />
<br />
One thing put forth is that Morris is the winningest pitcher of the 1980s. This is roughly parallel to the argument that since <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gracema01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mark Grace</a></strong> has the most hits of the 1990s, he should be in the Hall. Morris won 14 games every year from 1979-88. He led the league in victories once (1981), innings pitched and strikeouts once (1983), shutouts once (1986) and was a CY contender three times. Let's compare him to other pitchers during those seasons:<br />
<br />
Roger Clemens 1984-88: Clemens reached the Red Sox in 1984 and won two more CY awards in 5 seasons than Morris won in his career. He also led the league in wins as many times in that span as Morris did in his career. <br />
<br />
<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tommy John</a></strong> won 20 games as many times as Jack Morris during that time period. <br />
<br />
Dave Steib won 131 games in those 10 years, and led the league in more categories than Morris. <br />
<br />
Just because a pitcher or hitter compiled more of whatever stat you wish to pick over a decade does not make that player a hall of famer. Morris was a good pitcher during the 1980s and a durable one. Does that make him a hall of famer? Good and durable? There were two seasons in the 1980s where <em>Lamarr Hoyt</em> was a better pitcher than Morris. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
This is the cornerstone upon which Morris' candidacy rests (along with the Pitcher of the 1980s argument). Morris won the <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruthba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Babe Ruth</a></strong> Award, given to the most valuable post season player, twice. Here are his combined stats for the 1984, 1987 and 1991 playoffs:<br />
<br />
Record: 7-1<br />
ERA: 2.59<br />
WHIP: 1.096<br />
<br />
In 69 1/3 IP, Morris allowed 20 ER, walked 17 and struck out 46. In 1992 with the Jays, Morris did not pitch well and did not get past the sixth inning in either of his World Series starts.<br />
<br />
With the Twins facing elimination in the 1991 ALCS, the ball went to Morris and he tossed a near complete game to force a game five. <br />
<br />
The 1991 World Series for my money is the best of all time. Seven games, all but two decided by one run, three extra inning games. Morris won game one and then painted his masterpiece in game 7. In a scoreless tie game, Morris allowed two baserunners after the fifth inning and won 1-0 on a <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larkige01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Gene Larkin</a></strong> single in the bottom of the 10th. In the sixth, with runners on 2nd and 3rd with no out, Morris retired <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gantro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ron Gant</a></strong> on a weak grounder to first, intentionally walked Dave Justice, then got <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/breamsi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Sid Bream</a></strong> for a double play grounder. <br />
<br />
Far before this, however, Morris had a reputation as a big game pitcher. The evidence?<br />
<br />
1983: The Tigers were 4 back on July 16th. Morris won 10 straight decisions in July and August, throwing 8 CG and a shutout. Only the Orioles (Who won 29 of their last 41 games) kept the Tigers out. Morris could still get the fastball up in the mid-90s then. but not after the next season. <br />
<br />
1984: Not much of a race. Morris won 10 of his first 11 games as the Tigers won 35 of their first 40 games. His ERA in his first 11 starts was 1.88<br />
<br />
1987: With the Tigers tied for first on Aug 21, Morris pitched on three days rest for much of the month of September with mixed results, a 1-4 record. However, with the Blue Jays collapsing, Morris threw 9 innings of 2 run ball at them on October 3, combining with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hennemi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mike Henneman</a></strong> to put the Tigers up for good.<br />
<br />
1988: The Tigers finish second by a game to the Red Sox; Morris won 8 of his last 10 decisions, including 3 games in 14 days in September.<br />
<br />
Morris was on 4 world series title teams, and was vital to the success of three of them (in 1993, Morris was injured). What jumps out, however, is that Morris wanted the ball in big games. One gets the feeling that his manager wanted him on the bump as well.<br />
<br />
<br />
<strong><u>5. Was he a good enough player to contribute past his prime?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Think about this. Morris led the AL in wins twice: 1981 at age 26 and 1992 at age 37. He led the league in complete games at age 35. When the end came, it came swiftly at age 39. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>6. Is he the best player in baseball history not in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
James points out in <em>Politics of Glory</em> that for ordinary players, "we can usually find 5-10 players who were truly similar or well up in the range of the essentially similar." (93) he described essentially similar as having a similarity score of 850 or more. Morris does have 10 of those. But who are they?<br />
<br />
Five of them are Hall of Famers (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gibsobo01,gibsobo02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bob Gibson</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruffire01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Red Ruffing</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rusieam01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Amos Rusie</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grimebu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Burleigh Grimes</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fellebo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bob Feller</a></strong>). One could be (Andy Pettite) and the other four won't be (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/finlech01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Chuck Finley</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/tiantlu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Luis Tiant</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martide01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dennis Martinez</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/moyerja01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jamie Moyer</a></strong>). Martinez is the most similar to Morris. In 2004, Martinez received 3.2% of the vote on the ballot. Why? Martinez made three starts in two World Series (1979 and 1995, which is something in and of itself) and did not win any of them. Morris record is 254-186, Martinez 245-193. Morris was named to 5 AS teams, Martinez 4. According to James, any score over 900 is "truly similar" and Martinez is at a 903. <br />
<br />
In many ways, this is a fascinating list. Feller (The Heater from Van Meter) and Rusie (The Hoosier Thunderbolt) are considered two of the hardest throwers of all time. Gibson was the most intimidating mound presence of the last 50 years. Tiant was a swirling, twisting, mustachioed work of art who would use any arm angle or pitch at nearly any time. Moyer was slow, slower or slowest. Grimes was the last of the legal spitballers. Ruffing won 273 games and in many ways benefited by playing on the late 1930s New York Yankees. I would argue that in form as well as in stats, Martinez is truly the most similar to Morris. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>8.Do the players numbers meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Morris scores a 39 on standards with an average hall of famer at 50. He scores a 122 on the monitor with an average hall of famer at 100. Morris was not a dominant pitcher, but he was a good pitcher for quite a while. <br />
<br />
As an example, there are things called the Black Ink test and Grey Ink test, measuring how many times that player led the league or appeared in the top 10 in important pitching categories. Going back to that increasingly interesting set of comparison scores, we get this list:<br />
<br />
<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="MsoTableGrid" style="border-collapse: collapse; border: currentColor; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184;">
<tbody>
<tr style="mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; mso-yfti-irow: 0;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: 1pt solid windowtext; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Player</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Black Ink</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Grey Ink</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 1;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Feller</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">98</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">232</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 2;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Rusie</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">52</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">179</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 3;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Grimes</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">38</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">213</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 4;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Gibson</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">20</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">207</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 5;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Morris</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">20</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">193</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 6;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Martinez</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">17</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">135</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 7;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Tiant</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">13</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">112</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 8;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Ruffing</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">11</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">258</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 9;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Pettite</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">7</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">103</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 10; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Moyer</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">3</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 159.6pt;" valign="top" width="266"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">106</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
Morris is in the middle, but much closer to the non hall of famers in the bunch. Red Ruffing beats Morris by 65 in the grey ink test and won 20 games four years in a row. <br />
<br />
While Gibson and Morris look similar, Gibson made 7 AS teams and won two more CY awards than Morris and turned in a seven year peak period with nearly double the peak WAR Value. He was also marginally better in the series (see #15)<br />
<br />
<strong><u>9.Is there evidence to suggest he was much better or worse than his statistics?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
His post season record and the fact that he made 14 consecutive opening day starts, the last being in 1993. Morris was one of the last pitchers to routinely throw 10 complete games every year, and he was incredibly durable (34 GS per year from 1982-88). Morris was a bulldog.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>10.Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No. Clemens, Maddux and Glavine would be ahead of Morris on my ballot. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithle02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Lee Smith</a></strong> may also be ahead of Morris. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>11. How many Cy Young type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP or Cy Young Award? If not, how often did he come close?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Morris appeared in the top 15 in the MVP voting three times. He was the <em>Sporting News</em> 1981 pitcher of the year in the AL (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccatst01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Steve McCatty</a></strong> or Morris probably should have won the Cy Young instead of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fingero01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Rollie Fingers</a></strong> that year) and he finished in the top five in the CY voting 5 times. I don't see a year, other than 1981, where it can be argued that Morris should have won the award. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/q/quiseda01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dan Quisenberry</a></strong> was awesome in 1983, Clemens was dominant in 1991.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Morris made five all star teams and started three games (1981, 1985 and 1991). In 1979, Morris was 9-2 after the All Star break but was probably deserving in what was his first excellent season. Most pitchers who started three all star games have many more appearances than Morris, though some of them benefited by having two all star games in one year (Spahn 17, Clemens 11, Ford 10, Bunning 9, Maddux 8 <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/piercbi02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Billy Pierce</a></strong> 7).<br />
<br />
<strong><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could that team conceivably win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<br />
I am inclined to say no, even though with Morris circa 1979-87 as an ace the team would contend. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>14.What impact did the player have on baseball history?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Morris is outspoken in his criticism of PEDs and turned in one of the greatest world series performances in baseball history. Larry Granillo wrote an article about Morris for the Hardball Times (<a href="http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-collusion-to-blame-for-jack-morris-hof-case/">http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-collusion-to-blame-for-jack-morris-hof-case/</a>) that is an interesting look at the impact of collusion on Morris, and well worth a read.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>15.Did the player uphold the standards of the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
As far as I know. <br />
<br />
Jack Morris is not a hall of famer. He was a good pitcher for a long time and pitched very well in the postseason. Do 9 games of post-season greatness make someone a hall of famer? I don't think so. Some may seek to compare Morris' postseason achievements with Gibson. On the surface, they are similar. Morris was 4-0 in the World Series (I won't count 1992) with a 1.54 ERA and 0.78 WHIP. Gibson is 7-2 with a 1.89 ERA, .889 WHIP in double the innings as Morris. Also, there are the 92 Ks in 81 innings to think about. <br />
<br />
Morris clocked his 15 wins in different 12 seasons with no CY awards. Maddux won 15 games 18 seasons in a row and posted 4 CY. Maddux is one of the true great pitchers. Morris was a damn good pitcher, but not a hall of famer. <br />
<br />
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-69650310524929532072013-12-02T14:50:00.000-08:002013-12-03T09:45:48.162-08:00The Keltner List: Barry Bonds 1986-1998<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
One way to break down the career of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong> is to look at the pre and post PED versions of the player. If <em>Game of Shadows</em> was correct (and it was, in my opinion) Bonds began using PEDs before the 1999 season and continued after until 2004. This makes 1998 a convenient starting point for this conversation, because it has to do with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgwima01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mark McGwire</a></strong>, who admitted in 2010 that he used steroids. It also includes <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sosasa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Sammy Sosa</a></strong>, who most likely used steroids but has not admitted as such and will not any time soon. Why 1998? Bonds had one of his finest seasons.....and no one seemed to notice because of one player known to be on the juice and another who will never admit it. What if he had told the baseball world to screw off and walked off into the sunset?<br />
<br />
To that end, let's apply the Keltner List to the half of Bonds' career that he was presumably clean (1986-1998). Perhaps he decided to go off and live in a hut somewhere, or maybe he decided to garden and hang out with his kids. I don't know. I will go through this assuming that Bonds retired in anger after the 1998 season.<br />
<br />
Here are his offensive stats from 1986 to 1998:<br />
<br />
<br />
<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="MsoTableGrid" style="border-collapse: collapse; border: currentColor; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184;"><tbody>
<tr style="mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; mso-yfti-irow: 0;"><td style="background-color: transparent; border: 1pt solid windowtext; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 33.15pt;" valign="top" width="55"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">G</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 34.65pt;" valign="top" width="58"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">AB</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 33.15pt;" valign="top" width="55"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">R</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 34pt;" valign="top" width="57"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">H</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 27.55pt;" valign="top" width="46"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">2b</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 28.45pt;" valign="top" width="47"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">3b</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 27.55pt;" valign="top" width="46"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">HR</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 38pt;" valign="top" width="63"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">RBI</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 30.35pt;" valign="top" width="51"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">SB</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 33.6pt;" valign="top" width="56"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">CS</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
</div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 35.2pt;" valign="top" width="59"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">BB</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 35.2pt;" valign="top" width="59"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">SO</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 31.15pt;" valign="top" width="52"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">BA</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 31.15pt;" valign="top" width="52"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">OBP</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 25.65pt;" valign="top" width="43"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">SLG</span></div>
</td></tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 1; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes;"><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 33.15pt;" valign="top" width="55"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1898</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 34.65pt;" valign="top" width="58"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">6621</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 33.15pt;" valign="top" width="55"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1364</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 34pt;" valign="top" width="57"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1917</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 27.55pt;" valign="top" width="46"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">403</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 28.45pt;" valign="top" width="47"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">63</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 27.55pt;" valign="top" width="46"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">411</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 38pt;" valign="top" width="63"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1216</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 30.35pt;" valign="top" width="51"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">445</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 33.6pt;" valign="top" width="56"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">130</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 35.2pt;" valign="top" width="59"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1357</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 35.2pt;" valign="top" width="59"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1050</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 31.15pt;" valign="top" width="52"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.290</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 31.15pt;" valign="top" width="52"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.411</span></div>
</td><td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 25.65pt;" valign="top" width="43"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.556</span></div>
</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<strong><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
He was by several writers, ball players and coaches. James called him the most under appreciated superstar in his lifetime and tabbed him as the best player of the 1990s. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rijojo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jose Rijo</a></strong> said he was the best player he had ever seen. His college coach, Jim Brock, said he was the best athlete that he had ever coached. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gwynnto01,gwynnto02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tony Gwynn</a></strong> said he was the best player in the NL, no question<br />
<br />
At his height, the "Best Player in Baseball" discussion started with either Bonds or <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=griffke02,griffke01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ken Griffey</a></strong> Jr. Note the discussion started with these two players; they were a blend of power and speed that had not been seen in years, since <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mayswi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Willie Mays</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bobby Bonds</a></strong> or perhaps Mantle before his knee problems.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Bonds was the best player in Pittsburgh from the moment he arrived in 1986. Granted, being the best player on a team that lost 98 games is a dubious honor. Bonds was the centerpiece of the Pirates when they won three consecutive division titles from 1990-92. <br />
<br />
Bonds moved to the Giants in 1993 as a free agent. In 1992 the Giants had a good young closer (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beckro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Rod Beck</a></strong>), <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=willima04,willima09,willima03,willia015mat,willia011mat&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Matt Williams</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clarkwi02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Will Clark</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/claytro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Royce Clayton</a></strong>. That team lost 92 games. In comes Bonds and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bakerdu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dusty Baker</a></strong> and the 1993 Giants win 103 games. He was the best player on those Giants teams; you hear a lot about players "making their teammates better." Bonds hit 5th for most of that season and Williams hit 4th; Williams hit 20 HR in a down year in 1992. With protection he hit 38 in 1993. When Bonds hit 4th in 1994 and Williams 3rd in 1994, Williams had 43 HR at the time of the strike. Williams was a damn good third baseman and a good power hitter. Bonds helped him to a new level. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>3.Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
In 1987 I would have picked <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=raineti01,raineti02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tim Raines</a></strong> as the best left fielder in the NL. After that, it is Bonds despite some fine seasons by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mitchke01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Kevin Mitchell</a></strong>. His only competitor in the AL during the late 1980s was <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/henderi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Rickey Henderson</a></strong>, but by 1990 I'd take Bonds. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Much is made of Bonds failures in the post season. In Pittsburgh 1990-2 Bonds slashed .191/.337/.265 with 14 BB and 6 SB in 20 games. In 1997, Bonds went 3-12 against the Marlins.<br />
<br />
In 1990 Bonds hit 8 HR over the last 28 games as the Pirates went 18-10 and took the division by 4. <br />
<br />
In 1993, the Giants held a 9 game lead over the Braves on Aug 11th, then lost the division by 1 game. The Giants had two series with the Braves after Aug 11th and the Giants lost 5 of 6 games. In those six games, Bonds hit .409 with 2 HR, 3 RBI and 2 SB. <br />
<br />
In 1997, Bonds hit seven HR in his last 17 games. In a crucial 6 game road trip in September, the Giants won four games and Bonds drew 8 walks, scored 7 runs and stole 3 bases.<br />
<br />
Bonds usually played well down the stretch for teams in a race. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>5.Was he a good enough player that he could contribute past his prime?</u></strong><br />
<br />
In 1998, Bonds, age 33, hit 37 HR, the seventh consecutive year he had hit 30 or more. He stole 28 bases, marking the 10th consecutive year he had 20 or more steals. He was awarded his 8th Gold Glove award (four of which he deserved) and hit .300 for the fourth time in his career. He also drew 29 intentional walks to lead the NL, <em>marking the seventh consecutive season he had done so.</em> That bears repetition: Barry Bonds pre-steroids led the NL for seven consecutive seasons in intentional walks. Bonds did not lead the league in any other offensive category, but slashed .303/.438/.639, scored 120 runs, posted 122 RBI with a WAR of 8.1. So, yeah I guess he could.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>6.Is he the best player in baseball history not in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
With the reduced numbers, I would argue that <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rodriiv01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ivan Rodriguez</a></strong> is perhaps the best player not in the hall, and he is not yet eligible. Other than that, I would say that Bonds is the best player in history not in the hall of fame. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>7. Are players with similar statistics still in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
At the end of the 1998 season, four of the top 10 comps for Bonds (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/robinfr02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Frank Robinson</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/snidedu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Duke Snider</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mantlmi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mickey Mantle</a></strong> and Willie Mays) are in the hall of fame. Of the other six, four (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/guerrvl01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Vladimir Guerrero</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thomeji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jim Thome</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bagweje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jeff Bagwell</a></strong> and Ken Griffey) deserve strong consideration. The other two (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gonzaju03,gonzal009jua,gonzal006jua&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Juan Gonzalez</a></strong>, and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramirma02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Manny Ramirez</a></strong>) were damn good players. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>8. Do the players number meet Hall of Fame standards?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Applying the Hall of Fame Standards developed by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=jamesbi02,jamesbi01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bill James</a></strong> (link to definitions here: <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/leader_glossary.shtml#hof_standard">http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/leader_glossary.shtml#hof_standard</a>) gives Bonds a rank of 57.91. Rounding to 58, this gives him the same total as the following:<br />
<br />
<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/walkela01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Larry Walker</a></strong>, Ivan Rodriguez, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=ripkeca01,ripkeca99&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Cal Ripken</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kalinal01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Al Kaline</a></strong>, Vladimir Guerrero, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dimagjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Joe DiMaggio</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boggswa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Wade Boggs</a></strong>.<br />
<br />
Of these, 4 are Hall of Famers: Ripken, Kaline, DiMaggio and Boggs. Walker has been eligible since 2010 and is getting votes on 20% of the ballots. Rodriguez and Guerrero are eligible in 2016 and one is a first ballot vote while the other (Guererro) should get strong consideration.<br />
<br />
Much is made that before the PEDs, Bonds only led the league in HR once, and then he hit "only" 43. This is silly, as Bonds posted 3 pre-1998 Slugging titles, 4 OBP titles and <em>lead the NL in WAR 7 times in 11 seasons. </em><br />
<em></em><br />
Here are some Top-10 seasons for Bonds between 1986 and 1998:<br />
Home Runs 9, Stolen Bases 9, Runs 12, Doubles 4, extra base hits 11. <br />
<br />
Between 1986 and 1998, Bonds was in the top 10 in the basic offensive categories 109 times in 13 seasons. So, even discounting the post 1998 numbers, Bonds career is certainly of a hall of fame caliber. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest that the player was considerably better or worse than his statistics suggest?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Bonds was usually in the top 10 in outfield assists in the NL; his throwing arm was accurate but very average. At age 24, Bonds posted a .258 BA with 19 HR. He also drew 93 walks and stole 32 bases. This is the secret greatness of Bonds. Between 1990 and 1995, he was the perfect combination of power and speed. Walk him? Sure, put the guy on who successfully stole a base 78% of the time (223 out of 288). Pitch to him? Well, he averaged .74 RBI per game in those five seasons. 1998 was the last season in which Bonds stole 20 bases. In 1988 <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cansejo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jose Canseco</a></strong> posted a 40/40 season. Canseco went 20/20 two other times. Bonds did it 10 times in 13 seasons and went 30/30 five times during that period. In the field, Bonds as a youth could outrun mistakes.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>10.Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Yes, even discounting the post -1998 stats. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>11. How many MVP type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Bonds won three MVPs before 1998: (1990, 1992 and 1993). He finished second in the 1991 voting to....<em><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pendlte01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Terry Pendleton</a></strong>????!?!?!?!?</em> Bonds hit more HR, drove in 30 more RBI, stole 33 more bases in 76 fewer at bats than Pendleton. But, the Braves went from worst to first that year and some Dodgers writer gave a first place vote to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/butlebr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Brett Butler</a></strong>. Bonds lost by 15 votes.<br />
<br />
Bonds finished in the top 5 in voting in 1991, 1994, 1996 and 1997. He finished 8th in 1998. <br />
<br />
Including pre-1999 Bonds, there have been ten players who have won three MVP awards. Two (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Albert Pujols</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=rodrial01,rodrig011ale&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Alex Rodriguez</a></strong>) are active. The other seven (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/musiast01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Stan Musial</a></strong>, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/camparo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Roy Campanella</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schmimi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mike Schmidt</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/foxxji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jimmie Foxx</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/berrayo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Yogi Berra</a></strong>) are all in the hall of fame.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Bonds made 8 All Star games and started seven of them. 14 Other players (as of 1998) had started 7 All Star Games; all are in the Hall of Fame. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could that team conceivably win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Yes, undoubtedly. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>14.What impact did the player have on baseball history?</u></strong><br />
I think the pre-1998 Bonds (and Ken Griffey) cap the argument that the 1980s were the best decade in baseball history as far as talent. I think the next 15-20 years will match and surpass the 1980s, but it was the blend of abilities that Griffey and Bonds had that made an impact. Bonds also was at the forefront of the OPS movement. He (along with Rickey Henderson, Brett Butler and others) brought the base on balls back from the wilderness. The only catch was Bonds by 1989 was a cleanup hitter, a place traditionally reserved for power hitters. He was that and more; better than Dawson in Montreal, better than anyone since Willie Mays. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>15.Did the player uphold the standards of the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
Arguably, no. Before the PEDs, Bonds was viewed as truculent as Howard Cosell would say. He could be downright arrogant, mouthy and disrespectful. But, as <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leylaji99.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jim Leyland</a></strong> pointed out, "Barry needed a bit of controversy around him." Bonds personal life turned out to be a mess with a nasty public divorce between 1998 and 2000. His teammates complained about him off and on. He got into a shouting match with Jim Leyland in spring training. But, if the Hall kicked out people who were thought to be jerks, there may be 9 guys left in there.<br />
<br />
Consider that in 1999, <em>The Sporting News</em> voted Bonds the 34th best player of all time with stats through 1997. Bonds is a hall of famer <em>without one HR or anything else after 1998</em>. <br />
<br /></div>
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-76408889324915548682013-11-28T09:52:00.000-08:002013-11-28T09:52:04.534-08:00The Keltner List: Moises Alou<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Happy Thanksgiving and Happy Chanukah, everyone! Today I will knock out the last of the maybe players on the ballot for next year by looking at the career of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aloumo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Moises Alou</a></strong>.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Again, not to my knowledge. Alou was consistently regarded as a very good player but not the best in baseball.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
An interesting one for Alou. On a personal note, I wanted him to stay with the Pirates in 1990, but he helped get <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithza01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Zane Smith</a></strong> and the Pirates had some guys named Bonds, Van Slyke and Bonilla in the outfield. <br />
<br />
Montreal 1990-96: The 1994 Expos were one of the great "what if" teams. This coincided with Alou's first big year (.339/.397/.592) as he led the team in HR and finished third in the MVP voting. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/walkela01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Larry Walker</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grissma02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Marquis Grissom</a></strong> and Alou were a very strong outfield trio. Walker and Grissom were gone after 1994, leaving Alou as the best player on the team. Yes, even better than <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=gonzal002hen&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Henry Gonzalez</a></strong>. I don't know if he was considered a better player than Walker or Grissom; at the time, I would have probably taken Grissom over Alou. <br />
<br />
1997 Florida: For the World Series champs, I would probably pick <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsch04.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Charles Johnson</a></strong>, but Alou is in the discussion<br />
<br />
1998-2001: Houston: I Would still take Bagwell. <br />
<br />
Chicago 2002-04: You probably have to go with Sosa on this one, even though Sammy could no longer run very well or play defense very well.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Like <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gonzalu01,gonzalu02,gonzal012lui,gonzal014lui,gonzal018lui,gonzal011lui&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Luis Gonzalez</a></strong>, Alou suffers by being a direct contemporary with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong>. This is the reason he wound up with the Expos. He was most likely the second best LF for several years in the NL in the 1990s, making him one of the top five or six at his position at the time. He was certainly better than Gonzalez.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Alou hit very well in the 1997 World Series and crushed the ball in the 2003 playoffs (.387, 2 HR, 8 RBI .551 SLG in 12 games). Alou did not produce much in September 2003 in a race in which the Cubs finished one game ahead of the Astros. In a crucial four game series in August, Alou collected four hits, including a go ahead 5th inning HR of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/micelda01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Dan Miceli</a></strong> on the 13th which gave the Cubs a 6-4 lead that <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/borowjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Joe Borowski</a></strong> (!) and the bullpen held. Against the Astros, Alou hit very well that season with 15 RBI in 16 games and an OPS of .962.<br />
<br />
In 1997, Alou started off September with an 8 game hitting streak (.464/.516/.679) as the Marlins fought successfully for a wild card spot.<br />
<br />
In 2007, Alou injured his quad with the Mets at a 22-13 record. He returned to action on July 27th, The Mets went 35-31 without him. In September, Alou fashioned a 30 game hitting streak (.423/.451/.649) but the Mets continually let games slip away and went .500 for the month, finishing a game behind the Phillies. Alou hit .437 against the Phillies for the season, including a 5-12 performance in the only series that the Mets had with the Phillies in September. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>5. Was he a good enough player that he could contribute past his prime?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Absolutely. As a 40 year old, Alou had a 30 game hit streak. He was a two time all star after age 35.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>6. Is he the best player in baseball history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No. I would again go with Barry Bonds. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>7. Are most players with similar statistics in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Only one of Alou's comps is in the Hall of Fame. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kleinch01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Chuck Klein</a></strong> won the 1932 NL MVP with the Phillies and led he league in HR 4 times. Strangely enough, Klein won the MVP the season before he won the Triple Crown.<br />
<br />
Of the rest, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ordonma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Magglio Ordonez</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/greensh01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Shawn Green</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/berkmla01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Lance Berkman</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/o'neipa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Paul O'Neill</a></strong> are not eligible. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lynnfr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Fred Lynn</a></strong> received less than 6% of the vote when he appeared on the ballot (which strikes me as silly). Indian <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=johnsbo04,johnsbo03,johnsbo02,johnsbo01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bob Johnson</a></strong> received less than 1% in both his two years (1952-53, which strikes me as O.K.).<br />
<br />
<strong><u>8. Do the players numbers meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Alou never led the league in a batting category. For "grey ink" appearances (top 10), Alou posts 64 appearances, while the average hall of famer nets 144. For Hall of Fame standards, Alou is at 44 with a likely hall of famer at 50. Alou finished with a .301 batting average and 332 HR. Over a 162 game period, his average offensive output was .303/.369/.516 with 28 HR and 107 RBI. This in a career conducted during the high offensive level 1990s and 2000s.<br />
<br />
Alou did miss two full seasons with injuries (1991 and 1999) along with parts of several others. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest that Alou was much better or worse than his statistics suggest?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Alou's horrific broken ankle in 1991 took away a lot of his speed. From 1988-90 he stole 20 bases a year in the minors. It also cost him on defense. Alou seemed to have a huge amount of respect from his fellow players and from broadcasters. He probably would have been a different player if not for the ankle; I cannot say better or worse, but adding a dimension of speed to his game in the 1990s is intriguing to say the least.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>10. Is he the best player eligible who has not been inducted?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No, as that would again be Bonds. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>11. How many MVP type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, How many times did he come close?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Alou never won an MVP award but finished in the top three in voting twice (1994 and 1998), the top 10 in 1997 and the top 15 in 2001 and 2004. In 1994, Bagwell was the runaway (and legit) winner. He was second in the voting for Rookie of the Year in 1992 to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/karroer01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Eric Karros</a></strong>. Had Alou not missed some of the season due to his ankle, he probably would have won the award. He picked up Silver Slugger awards in 1994 and 1998.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>12. How many all star type seasons did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most other players selected to that many All Star games get elected to the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Alou made 6 All Star teams. Of his comps, Lynn made 9, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithre06.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Reggie Smith</a></strong> and Indian Bob Johnson 7 each. Alou never started an all star game but notched the game winning hit in 1994.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>13. If this man was the best player on his team, could that team conceivably win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
I am inclined to say no, but it would be a contender. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>14.What impact did the player have on baseball history?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Alou was a central player in the "Bartman Incident" during the 2003 playoffs. Steve Bartman, attempting to catch a foul pop fly down the left field line in Wrigley and chaos ensued as Alu reached up to catch the ball. At first Alou claimed that he could not have caught the foul fly anyway, but then in 2008 he changed his story. In any event, the Bartman play is what is remembered, not <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gonzaal02,gonzaal01,gonzal006ale,gonzal001ale&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Alex Gonzalez</a></strong>'s inexplicable error on a double play ball earlier in the inning. The Bartman story is best looked at in the great ESPN 30 for 30 documentary "Catching Hell."<br />
<br />
Alou was also conspicuous as one of the last players not to wear batting gloves. On Slate.com in 2004, Alou was listed as urinating on his hands during the season to toughen up his skin. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>15.Did the player uphold the standards of the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<br />
As far as I know he did. Alou is untainted by the steroids scandal and was always seen as a respectful and respected clubhouse presence. <br />
<br />
I don't think Alou is a hall of fame player. His case would have been MUCH stronger had he not missed two seasons to injury, but I cannot count that. He was a fine player (and for two or three years a great one) but not a hall of famer. <br />
<br />
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-25179723911352548392013-11-27T14:50:00.001-08:002013-11-27T14:50:41.511-08:00The Keltner List: Luis Gonzalez<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Today I will put <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gonzalu01,gonzalu02,gonzal012lui,gonzal014lui,gonzal018lui,gonzal011lui&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Luis Gonzalez</a></strong> through <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=jamesbi02,jamesbi01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bill James</a></strong>' Keltner List, named for the Indians third baseman <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/keltnke01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Ken Keltner</a></strong>.<br />
<br />
<ol>
</ol>
<strong><u>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody suggest, while he was active, that he was the best player in baseball?</u></strong><br />
<ol>
</ol>
Not to my knowledge. Does anybody know anything about this? <br />
<br />
<strong><u>2. Was he the best player on his team?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Gonzalez got around. Houston (1990-1995, 1997), the Cubs (1995-96), Detroit (1998), Arizona (1999-2006) Dodgers (2007) and Florida (2008). He was not the best player on the Astros (Biggio and Bagwell were better), he was average with the Cubs<br />
<br />
It was not until Gonzalez reached Arizona that he truly began to put up numbers. Between 1999 and 2003, Gonzalez posted 100 RBIs or more every year, adjusted OPS of over 130 and drew 100 walks for the only time in his career in 2001. As far as position players on those teams, I will give <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/finlest01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Steve Finley</a></strong> the edge in 1999 and 2000, who posted similar (if not better) offensive numbers while playing CF. Gonzalez was probably the best position player on his team in 2001.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
The answer to both of those questions is no. Gonzalez is a direct contemporary of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong>. In 2001, Bonds hit 73 HR and won the MVP. In 1999, Gonzalez put together a great year and was likely the best LF in the NL that season, but one year does not make this answer a yes. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>4. Was he a good enough player to play regularly past his prime?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
His last all star season was in 2005 at age 37, and he cranked out 52 doubles at age 38. Gonzalez was aided a bit by Bank One, and was something of a late bloomer besides. His first 20 HR season was with the Tigers at age 30, but that was more a result of plate discipline than anything else. Gonzalez was productive enough, but I get the feeling that he 668 plate appearances in 2006 had more to do with Gonzalez's durability and lack of options on the part of the DBacks. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>5. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Gonzalez did notch the base hit that won the 2001 World Series off of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riverma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mariano Rivera</a></strong>. In games 6-7 that year, he went 3-9 with 3 RBI. In 1997, Gonzalez struggled in August (.163/.272/.184) as the Astros held on to finish first in the NL Central. In 1999, Gonzalez was a one man wrecking crew against the NL West, hitting .370 with 8 HR and 35 RBI against divisional foes. <br />
<br />
The '99 DBacks won 51 of their last 68 games; in that period Gonzalez hit 11 of his HR and put together hit streaks of 9, 16 and 12 games. <br />
<br />
In 2001, Gonzalez smacked 14 HR in the last 47 games of the season after the Diamondbacks moved into first place. In 6 games against the 2nd place Giants during that span, Gonzalez was 8-20 with 2 HR, 6 RBI and 6 BB in 6 games. He was intentionally walked twice.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>6. Is he the best player in history not in the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No; there are multiple position players, including some of Gonzalez's comps, that I would vote for before Gonzalez. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>7. Are most players with comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
There are some <em>very</em> interesting comps for Gonzalez. At the top of the list are <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/parkeda01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Dave Parker</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/evansdw01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Dwight Evans</a></strong> (both RF from the 1970s known for good defense and batting eyes), <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=willibi01,willibi02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Billy Williams</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/abreubo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bobby Abreu</a></strong> are next, followed by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/perezto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tony Perez</a></strong> (!), <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/davisch01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Chili Davis</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/baineha01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Harold Baines</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/staubru01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Rusty Staub</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrca01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Carlos Beltran</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dawsoan01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Andre Dawson</a></strong>.<br />
<br />
In my mind, Evans and Parker are not true comps; the stats look similar, but Parker was 3 inches taller and close to 40 pounds heavier than Gonzalez, had a much better arm. Parker also played in an era where his 32 2B, 8 3B and 22 HR per year look a lot better than Gonzalez in 1995-1999. Parker also won two batting titles in that span and an MVP award. Evans drew many more walks than Gonzalez and is considered by most (even outside of Boston) to have been a better player. <br />
<br />
Williams is an interesting one, but again he was a demonstrably better player than Gonzalez. In 1999, Gonzalez hit .336 and burst out as a star for the Diamondbacks. The NL as a league hit .268 with a .427 SLG percentage that year. In 1964, the first year Williams cracked 30 HR, the NL hit .254 as a league and slugged .354. While Williams posted five different seasons with a Wins-Above-Replacement value of 5, Gonzalez did it three times in a hitting atmosphere much more favorable. While Williams, Perez and Dawson are hall of famers, and Parker and Evans deserve a lot of consideration, their careers took place in a much different time than the late 1990s and early 2000s.<br />
<br />
<br />
<strong><u>8. Do the players numbers meet hall of fame standards?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Gonzalez scores a 48, just shy of the 50 of an average hall of famer. He has a black ink (league leader) score of 5, well short of the average of 27 of a hall of famer. His HoF Monitor score is 103, slightly above the 100 average. Gonzalez was a productive player to be sure, just not a great one. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>9. Is there evidence to suggest that Gonzalez was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Here is an interesting theory: Gonzalez is a test case for what the BBWOA will do with the Steroid Era. Gonzalez was not implicated in any way in the Mitchell Report, but his 2001 season (57 HR, 142 RBI) raised eyebrows. In 2009 a site called "RotoInfo" printed the supposed list of the 103 players who tested positive and Gonzalez appeared; the veracity of this list is more than an open question. In 2006, Gonzalez himself denied using steroids, which I am inclined to believe. That may not amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world, but there it is. <br />
<br />
I would argue that Gonzalez got <em>better as expected during his career</em>, and as such should serve as a baseline. Until he was 26, Gonzalez was a talented ball player, good for 25-30 doubles, 10-15 HR and good defense in left field each year. Starting in 1993, he began to draw walks and cut down on strikeouts and developed by 1998 into an excellent hitter. The power came as he got older, which is to be expected. Gonzalez went from a speedy player with doubles power in his early to mid twenties to a patient slugger in his early 30s<br />
<br />
While his 2001 season is an incredible fluke, it has everything to do with a competent professional hitter taking advantage of a powerful lineup with a switch in approach. If Gonzalez is discounted by the voters and ascribed as a "one year wonder" they are ignoring the 8 seasons when Gonzalez had an OPS over 100, three 20+ HR seasons and six 40+ 2B seasons <em>before</em> 2001 . Gonzalez was a good major league ballplayer, and took advantage of his surroundings to be a holy terror for a few years. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the hall of fame but not inducted?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
No. That would be Barry Bonds. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>11. How many MVP type seasons did the player have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times did he come close?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Gonzalez never won an MVP award (in 2001 he finished third to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sosasa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Sammy Sosa</a></strong> and Barry Bonds, again raising an interesting steroid barroom argument). He finished in the top 25 in voting two other seasons. He never really came close. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>12. How many All-Star type seasons did he have? how many all star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played this many go to the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<br />
Gonzalez was a five time all star who made four starts. He probably deserved consideration in 2000 and perhaps in 1993. Most Hall of Famers played in more than five all star games. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>13. If this man were the best on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
I would argue no. I am not sure if it would contend for a pennant. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>14. What impact did this player have on the game? Was he responsible for any rule changes?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Not to my knowledge.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the hall of fame?</u></strong><br />
<strong><u></u></strong><br />
Gonzalez is active in the work of the Baseball Assistance Team, a charitable organization that provides financial assistance for former major and minor league players and umpires. He was by far the most popular player on the Diamondbacks squad and is active in Arizona politics. I would say that he certainly meets this standard.<br />
<br />
Overall, Gonzalez was a good player, great for a few years. He also got to live every man's dream by getting the winning hit in Game 7 of the World Series of the best closer in the history of the universe. That is a great career, but I am not convinced that Gonzalez is a hall of famer. In any case, a player would be happy to have had 1/3 the career that Gonzalez did. Plus, he made my brother and nephew (Diamondbacks fans) very happy and provided us all with good baseball for a lot of years. For that, <br />
Gonzo, I thank you<br />
<br />
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-69020018595254251922013-11-21T20:05:00.001-08:002013-11-21T20:08:16.382-08:00The Keltner List: Mike Mussina<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Today I continue the Keltner List observations with the Moose, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mussimi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mike Mussina</a></strong>. <br />
<br />
<strong>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, suggest that he was he best player in baseball?</strong><br />
<br />
To my limited knowledge, no one ever put forward Mike Mussina as the best player in the game. <br />
<br />
2. <strong>Was he the best player on his team?</strong><br />
<br />
Mussina was the best pitcher on his team in multiple seasons: 1992 in Baltimore (18-5, 4 Shutouts), 1995-97 Baltimore, 2001 and 2003 with the Yankees. In 2001 with the Yankees, Clemens was probably the best on the team. In 2003, Mussina or <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riverma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mariano Rivera</a></strong> were the best. So, certainly, for six seasons of his career Mussina was one of the best players on his team. <br />
<br />
<strong>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Mussina suffers because his career is a close parallel to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Greg Maddux</a></strong>, one of the 10 best pitchers of all time. In 1992, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/eckerde01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dennis Eckersley</a></strong> won the AL <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Cy Young</a></strong> Award over Mussina and Clemens. I am not sure that Mussina or Clemens were more deserving that year. Both won 18 games, both finished with a WHIP of close to 1.000. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcdowja01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jack McDowell</a></strong> won 20 games but his peripherals were not the equal of Clemens. After 1992, Mussina has several seasons where he was one of the best three or four pitchers in the American League, but was he ever <em>considered</em> to be one of the best pitchers in baseball? In the early 1990s, perhaps. In New York, it is arguable that he was not the best pitcher on his team thanks to the "reborn" <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Roger Clemens</a></strong>. <br />
<br />
<strong>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
In 1997, Mussina tossed 29 innings in the post season and struck out 41 hitters, giving up only 11 hits. That is the very definition of dominant. The problem was that the Orioles could not score runs. Mussina in the ALCS that year did not get a decision, both games went extra innings and were lost by the Baltimore bullpen. <br />
<br />
In 1996, Mussina went 7-3 in August and September for an Orioles team that won the wild card by three games. <br />
In 2001, Mussina went 4-0 down the stretch for a Yankee team that won their division by 14 games. In 2002, Mussina won 2 of his last 6 starts, but posted a 1.48 ERA and 46 Ks in 42 2/3 innings. <br />
<br />
For the Yankees in the postseason, Mussina was 5-6 with a 3.88 ERA in 17 starts. He always upped his strikeout rate in the postseason with a robust 152 Ks in 139 2/3 postseason innings.<br />
<br />
<strong>5. Was he a good enough player that he could contribute past his prime?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Mussina lost 10 games only once after the age of 34. After 2003, Mussina posted an ERA higher than the league twice (2004 and 2007). 2007 was a season where he had lost velocity, but in 2008 he bounced back to post his lowest ERA since 2001. Mussina was somewhat durable, making 30 starts or more 12 times in 18 seasons. <br />
<br />
<strong>6. Is he the best player in baseball history not in the hall of fame?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
No. He is not the best pitcher eligible who is in the hall of fame. That would be Greg Maddux. <br />
<br />
<strong>7. Are most players with comparable statistics in the hall of fame?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
<div class="sim_scores">
<span class="bold_text">Similar Pitchers</span> (from baseball-reference.com)</div>
<ol>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pettian01.shtml">Andy Pettitte</a> (912) </li>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maricju01.shtml">Juan Marichal</a> (866) *</li>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wellsda01.shtml">David Wells</a> (863) </li>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schilcu01.shtml">Curt Schilling</a> (860) </li>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmeji01.shtml">Jim Palmer</a> (855) *</li>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hubbeca01.shtml">Carl Hubbell</a> (855) *</li>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brownke01.shtml">Kevin Brown</a> (844) </li>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morrija02.shtml">Jack Morris</a> (838) </li>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/griffcl01.shtml">Clark Griffith</a> (831) *</li>
<li><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sabatc.01.shtml">CC Sabathia</a> (826) </li>
</ol>
<span class="small_text">* - Signifies Hall of Famer</span><br />
According to James' dictum, no one is unusually similar to Mussina. Pettite is "truly similar" (over 900) while Hubbell, Palmer, Schilling, Wells and Marichal are "essentially similar." Of the top six, three are hall of famers and three are not yet eligible. <br />
<br />
From a pitching standpoint, only Palmer and Schilling are closely similar to Mussina, even though Palmer featured a high fastball and Mussina a four seamer with a knuckle curve. <br />
<br />
<strong>8. Do the players numbers meet hall of fame standards?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
With a score of 54, Mussina's numbers certainly meet hall of fame standards. The hall of fame monitor for Mussina is at 121, where 100 is a "likely" hall of famer. Either way, Mussina's numbers are worthy.<br />
<br />
<strong>9. Is there evidence to suggest that the player was much better or worse than his statistics suggest?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Mussina won 15 or more games 11 times in his career but led the league in wins only once. Mussina was a consistent pitcher who put up WAR numbers in the All Star range 10 times in 18 seasons. I would consider Mussina better than he appears in the numbers because of consistency; he had a losing record twice in 18 years. <br />
<br />
<strong>10. Is he the best player at his position who is not inducted?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
No. That would be Greg Maddux or Roger Clemens. I would vote for Maddux because of the steroid clouds surrounding Clemens. <br />
<br />
<strong>11. How many MVP type seasons did the player have? Did he win an MVP? How many times did he come close?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Surprisingly, Mussina never won a Cy Young award. He did finish in the top five in the voting six times, and in the top six nine times. In 1999 Mussina finished second to the 23 game winner <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=martipe02,martipe03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Pedro Martinez</a></strong>. But, for a pitcher to finish in the top six in cy young voting for half of the years he was active is quite an accomplishment. <br />
<br />
<strong>12. How many All Star type season did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most of the other players elected to that many games go into the hall of fame?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Mussina made 5 all star teams and pitched in three games, starting none. He won 20 games in 2008 (his final season) and did not make the All Star team. In 1995 he led the AL in wins with 19 and did not make the All Star team. Phil Neikro and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/perryga01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Gaylord Perry</a></strong> made five all star games as pitchers since the All Star game began back in the 1930s. Mussina compares well, but is not a 300 game winner like Niekro and Perry.<br />
<br />
<strong>13. If this man was the best player on his team, would that team likely win the pennant?</strong><br />
<br />
With Mussina as an ace, any team would be a contender for a division title. For a pennant, however, that is not as clear. <br />
<br />
<strong>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history?</strong><br />
Mussina brought back the "knuckle curve" and threw the kitchen sink by 2008. The <em>Neyer/James Book of Pitchers</em> quotes a <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=morgajo02,morgajo01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Joe Morgan</a></strong> and Jon Miller ESPN broadcast that Mussina brought on a slider in 2003. Back in the 1930s and 1940s, most pitchers would use multiple pitches, not relying on two or three, but sprinkling in more than four. Mussina is a throwback, and will most likely be one of the last pitchers to successfully employ a knuckle curve. <br />
<br />
<strong>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the hall of fame?</strong><br />
<br />
To my knowledge, Mussina did just that. He raised some hackles in 2006 when he said that he matched to several hall of famers, but it is no sin to be honest. Mussina won seven gold gloves as well, and electing him would not be a blight on the hall by any stretch. Maddux and Glavine and Smoltz should go in first, but Mussina would be a worthy selection.<br />
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-40827074143063382072013-11-13T07:47:00.001-08:002013-11-13T07:47:57.120-08:00First Year Players on the Ballot<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Today I will look at several of the first year players on the Hall of Fame ballot and whether or not they have a chance to get in. Some have a chance to get votes. The "maybe" players will get their own post. However, all had good careers. This is a fun exercise for me, as these are many of the players that I got to see play when I first started going to major league (and minor league) games in the 1980s and early 1990s. <br />
<br />
<strong>The "Yes Men":</strong><br />
<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Greg Maddux</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=thomafr04,thomafr03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Frank Thomas</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/glavito02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tom Glavine</a></strong> <br />
<br />
<strong>The "Maybes":</strong><br />
<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mussimi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mike Mussina</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kentje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jeff Kent</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gonzalu01,gonzalu02,gonzal012lui,gonzal014lui,gonzal018lui,gonzal011lui&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Luis Gonzalez</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aloumo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Moises Alou</a></strong><br />
<br />
<strong>The "We'll Get Votes" Crowd:</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesto02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Todd Jones</a></strong>:</strong> the closer gifted with a great changeup, Jones saved 40 games twice in his career (2000 and 2005). In a 16 year career, Jones made one all star game and finished fifth in the Cy Yong voting in 2000. He is also one great writer.<br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/snowj.01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">J.T. Snow</a></strong>: </strong>Snow was a six time gold glove winner at first. His best years (1997-2003) saw him as a good source of left handed power and one of the key elements of some very good Giants teams. Snow also won the Willie Mac Award, voted on by team members and coaches for leadership and positive influences on the SF community, twice. <br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sexsori01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Richie Sexson</a></strong>: </strong>Sexson was a tall, thin first baseman with enormous holes in his swing. If he hit the ball, it would go very, very far. Two time all star for the Brewers, then brought to Seattle replace <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/olerujo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">John Olerud</a></strong>. Sexson produced 39 HR, 121 RBI and 167 K's in 2005 but back problems ate him up. <br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gagneer01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Eric Gagne</a></strong>: </strong>In 2004, Eric Gagne was the best closer in baseball. Between 1999 and 2004 he saved 152 games and struck out 604 batters in only 530 innings. His changeup was described as "unfair" and "a pitch that should not exist." After elbow and back surgeries in 2005 and 2006, he was never the same. One of the major players named in the Mitchell Report for use of HGH.<br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/nomohi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Hideo Nomo</a></strong>:</strong> "The Tornado" was a fantastic pitcher when he first got to the Dodgers, featuring a devastating split finger fastball. The thing disappeared, for God's sake. Nomo led the NL in strikeouts as a rookie in 1995 and then led the AL in 2001. He only made one all star game; however his 1996 and 2002 campaigns were of an all star caliber. Nomo won 123 games in the United States, 78 in Japan and threw two no hitters. <br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rogerke01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Kenny Rogers</a></strong>: </strong>few remember (at least I didn't) that Rogers was a relief pitcher for the first four years of his career and led the AL in appearances in 1992. The idea that he led the AL in starts for the Rangers in 2004 is a bit weird. Rogers always seemed to win wherever he went, posting 15 win seasons 5 times in 16 years as a starter with the Rangers, A's and Tigers. He also won a World Series in 1996 with the Yankees. <br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/durhara01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ray Durham</a></strong>:</strong> A 5'8 second baseman, Durham had good gap power and would toss in 10-15 HR a year for good measure. He was a skilled leadoff man who until he turned 30 scored 100 runs and stole 30 bases a season for the White Sox. Two time all star.<br />
<br />
<strong>The "We Played" crowd:</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stewash01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Shannon Stewart</a></strong>: </strong>Stewart never made an all star team, but he did finish 4th in the MVP voting in 2003 (.307-13-73). <br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/loaizes01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Esteban Loaiza</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/liebejo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jon Lieber</a></strong>: </strong>Loaiza won 20 games in 2003 with the White Sox and lead the AL in strikeouts. He played for 8 teams in his career and won 10 games in a season for four of them. He actually tied for the NL lead in games started as a rookie in 1995 for the Pirates. Speaking of that team, the starters were Loaiza, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/neaglde01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Denny Neagle</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wagnepa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Paul Wagner</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/parrist01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Steve Parris</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/erickjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">John Ericks</a></strong> and Jon Lieber. In 1998, the Pirates traded Lieber straight up for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brownbr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Brant Brown</a></strong>. The result? Over the next four years Lieber won 48 games for the Cubs, including 20 in 2001 and made an all star team. Brant Brown hit 16 HR for the Pirates in 1999...but struck out 114 times in 381 AB and was traded to the Marlins for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/avenbr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bruce Aven</a></strong>.<br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jenkige01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Geoff Jenkins</a></strong>: </strong>Jenkins was an All Star for Milwaukee in 2003 and a solid left fielder who hit 20 HR every year. <br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/benitar01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Armando Benitez</a></strong>:</strong> Benitez was tall and filled out later in his career. He threw a very hard, moving fastball. Benitez had trouble in the post-season, blowing two saves for the Orioles against the Indians in the 1997 ALCS and then blowing game one of the 2000 World Series. The man did, however, save 289 games. He also won the 2001 Rolaids Relief Man award and made two all star teams. <br />
<br />
<strong><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vidrojo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jose Vidro</a></strong>: </strong>In 2004, Vidro was 29 years old, a three time all star and 2003 silver slugger at second base for the Expos. In his first 8 seasons he hit 101 HR and notched 30 or more doubles five times. In 2005, Vidro suffered injuries to his right knee and was never the same, finishing up as a DH with the Mariners. <br />
<br />
</div>
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-57259971225567442972013-11-13T06:34:00.000-08:002013-11-13T06:34:19.424-08:00The Keltner List: Tim Raines<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
The next installment focuses on <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=raineti01,raineti02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tim Raines</a></strong>, who received a 52.2% vote in 2013. This is his 7th year on the ballot. Raines was a dangerous switch hitter for the Expos in the 1980s and for the White Sox and Yankees in the 1990s. <br />
<br />
<br />
<strong>1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, suggest that he was the best player in baseball?</strong><br />
In 1988, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=jamesbi02,jamesbi01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bill James</a></strong> concluded that Raines was the second best player in baseball outside of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boggswa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Wade Boggs</a></strong>. Tom Tango rates him as the best leadoff hitter in the National League during the 1980s. I do not know that anyone tagged Raines as the best player in baseball, but he was in the discussion for the top five or ten during the height of his career.<br />
<br />
<strong>2. Was he the best player on his team?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Raines became a full time player in 1981; at that point, the Montreal Expos featured two future Hall of Famers (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cartega01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Gary Carter</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dawsoan01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Andre Dawson</a></strong>) and one near member (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reardje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jeff Reardon</a></strong>). Dawson was most likely the best player on the team during Raines' first season, but after that it was Raines. Between 1983 and 1987 he was the best player on his team as Dawson developed knee problems.<br />
<br />
<strong>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in his league at his position?</strong><br />
Raines was a left fielder and leadoff man. He had the singular misfortune of being a direct contemporary with the best leadoff man in the history of baseball, Ricky Henderson. Raines was second best in baseball, making him the best in his league. Between 1981 and 1987, he was the best left fielder in the NL. After 1987, that title was owned by some guy named Bonds. <br />
<br />
<strong>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
In 1993, Raines played a key role for the White Sox, drawing 29 walks and stealing 14 bases without being caught in September and October. It was in July that he really shone, hitting .323 with an OPS of .925. In 1996, Raines showed uncharacteristic power in September, hitting 7 HR in 84 AB for the Yankees. He solidified their left field position that year, then played a key role in the next season. In the 1993 ALCS, he hit .444 for the Sox. <br />
<br />
<strong>5. Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly past his prime?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Raines was last a full time player in 1995 for the White Sox at age 35. He slashed .285/.374/.422, continuing to get on base at a good clip and showing good gap power. In 1998, he was an above average offensive player for the Yankees, drawing 55 walks in 321 AB. After a diagnosis of lupus in 2000, Raines came back for parts of two seasons as a part time player with limited success. <br />
<br />
<strong>6. Is he the best player in baseball history who is not in the Hall of Fame?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
I don't think so. I would vote <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong> for that label.<br />
<br />
<strong>7. Are most of the players who have comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Of the 10 players who are comparable with Raines, four (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brocklo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Lou Brock</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/careyma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Max Carey</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clarkfr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Fred Clarke</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/slaugen01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Enos Slaughter</a></strong>) are in the hall. Two of those players (Clarke and Carey) were playing back in the 1910s and 1920s. Other similar players include <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/damonjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Johnny Damon</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=cruzjo02,cruzjo01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jose Cruz</a></strong> (who would be in the hall of fame but for an ankle injury and the Astrodome) and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/loftoke01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Kenny Lofton</a></strong>. Lofton is an interesting case, and needs to be looked at further. Unfortunately, this is not the place or time. <br />
<br />
In actuality, Carey and Lofton are the most similar players to Raines. Both were leadoff men who drew walks and stole bases. Both played good defense (although both played some centerfield) but Raines had more power than Carey and somewhat more power than Lofton. Brock did not get on base at the clip that Raines did. Fred Clarke was the left fielder and manager for the great Pirates teams of the first decade of the 20th century. Slaughter was a hustling ball player who could hit .300 and put up 40 doubles a year, but he did not have the speed of Raines. <br />
<br />
<strong>8.Do the player's numbers meet hall of fame standards?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Raines comes in at 47 according to baseball-reference.com. He is currently 5th all time in stolen bases and 36th in walks. Raines won one batting title and led the NL in steals for four consecutive years. The hall generally likes players such as Raines, who get a lot of hits and steal a lot of bases. <br />
<br />
<strong>9. Is there evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than his statistics suggest?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Raines did a lot of the little things well. He got on base, took extra bases and was an excellent base stealer and showed some power. Raines stole 808 bases in his career and was caught only 146 times, which is a phenomenal success rate of 84.6%. He also walked more than he struck out (1330 vs. 966) and was a strong fielder in his younger days. In other words, maybe. <br />
<br />
<strong>10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame and is not inducted?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
No, that goes to Barry Bonds. I would put Raines at #2 on that list, with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aloumo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Moises Alou</a></strong> a distant third.<br />
<br />
<strong>11. How many MVP type seasons did the player have? Did he win an MVP? How many times did he come close?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Raines never won an MVP, but was in the top 10 three times (1983, 1986 and 1987). His best season may have been 1985. Raines hit .320 with 54 extra base hits, stole 70 bases while being caught only 9 times and scored 115 runs. Or maybe it was 1987, when he won the NL batting title and led the league in runs with 123. <br />
<br />
<strong>12.How many All Star type season did he have? How many All Star teams did he play for? Did most of the other players elected to that many games go into the hall of fame?</strong><br />
Raines was an all star caliber player between 1981 and 1993 and was selected for seven all star games. Out of left fielders, this is 9th highest all time. Six players of the same amount or more are in the Hall, with one ineligible (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=rosepe02,rosepe01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Pete Rose</a></strong>) and another in limbo (Barry Bonds). He was the MVP of the 1987 All Star game. <br />
<br />
<strong>13. If this man was the best player on his team, would that team likely win the pennant?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
I would argue yes. <br />
<br />
<strong>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Raines was one of the high profile players affected by the Collusion scandal of the late 1980s. He became a free agent following the 1986 season but no one signed him despite his six consecutive all star games and NL batting title. He did not play for the entire month of April 1987 and resigned with the Expos. He was awarded some $895,000 dollars in compensation. <br />
<br />
<strong>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the hall of fame?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
I would argue yes, even though his nickname (Rock) bespoke his problems with cocaine in the 1980s. Raines was said to slide head first into bases to save the coke vials in his uniform pants. He was a very popular player with the Yankees, who pranked him when he received his World Series ring for 1997. </div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-80021485108882974742013-11-12T12:41:00.000-08:002013-11-13T06:31:35.793-08:00The Keltner List: Frank Thomas<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Number three in the series is The Big Hurt <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=thomafr04,thomafr03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Frank Thomas</a></strong>. I think he is forgotten at this point, but he was Pujols before Pujols.<br />
<strong></strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
<strong>1. Was he ever considered the best player in baseball?</strong><br />
<br />
Thomas was never considered the best player in baseball, but many in the early 1990s considered him the game's best right handed hitter. He was a very large (6'5, 240 lbs) man who hit the ball very hard. Many of his home runs as a youngster were flat out line drives. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=griffke02,griffke01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ken Griffey</a></strong> Jr. were the best players during Thomas' prime seasons. <br />
<br />
<strong>2. Was he the best player on his team?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Thomas was the best player on the White Sox from 1992 through 1997 (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=raineti01,raineti02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Tim Raines</a></strong> was still very productive early in Thomas's career but was not the player he was in Montreal) and in 2000 and 2003. Injuries cost him several seasons in that period. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sosasa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Sammy Sosa</a></strong> was not yet the player he would become with the Cubs when Thomas came to the majors in 1990.<br />
<br />
<strong>3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Thomas was a full time first baseman from 1991-1996 before he moved to DH. In that time, he was arguably the best first baseman in the American League (not fielding, obviously). Was he better than <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bagweje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jeff Bagwell</a></strong>? Probably not, but let's compare the two. <br />
<br />
<br />
<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="MsoTableGrid" style="border-collapse: collapse; border: currentColor; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184;">
<tbody>
<tr style="mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; mso-yfti-irow: 0;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: 1pt solid windowtext; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Games</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Runs</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">HR</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">RBI</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">BB</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">BA</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">OBP</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">SLG</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">OPS</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 1;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Thomas</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">870</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">636</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">215</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">698</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">726</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.327</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.452</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.603</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1.054</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 2; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Bagwell</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">846</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">545</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.85pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">144</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">589</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">500</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.307</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.406</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.525</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 47.9pt;" valign="top" width="80"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">.931</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
(stats courtesy of <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/">www.baseball-reference.com</a>)<br />
<br />
Thomas was a superior hitter, but Bagwell was hampered by playing in the Astrodome. Bagwell was a better baserunner than Thomas and a much better fielder, but Thomas was the best first baseman in the AL. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgrifr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Fred McGriff</a></strong> should be in this discussion as well. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmera01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Rafael Palmeiro</a></strong> also, but I am unable to tackle the steroids issue yet. <br />
<br />
<strong>4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
In 1993, the White Sox went 29-14 after August 19 to win the AL West over the Rangers and Royals. During that stretch Thomas hit 9 HR with 28 RBIs. <em>He</em> <em>struck out only 9 times</em>. The White Sox were in first in 1994 when the strike hit by a game over a strong Indians team. That season was the second MVP of Thomas' career, and the White Sox would not have been in first without him. In 2006, the A's finished four games ahead of the Angels, with Thomas hitting 11 HR in September and October. Thomas was not on the post season roster for the 2005 White Sox.<br />
<br />
<strong>5. Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly past his prime?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Yes if you count the DH. Thomas played only 131 games at first following the 1997 season. A tricep injury in 2001 cost him 140 games that year at age 33. He came back to post good numbers as a DH in 2003, 2006 and 2007 but was unable to play the field. He was no longer a .300 hitter but still had good power and plate discipline. <br />
<br />
<strong>6. Is he the best player in baseball history who is not in the hall of fame?</strong><br />
<br />
No, that is probably Barry Bonds.<br />
<br />
<strong>7. Are most players with comparable stats in the Hall of Fame?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Thomas finished his career with 521 HR, 1704 RBI, 1667 walks and the 14th highest OPS in history. There are only four players who are "essentially similar" to Thomas (defined by James as a comp score of 850 or over): Bagwell, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramirma02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Manny Ramirez</a></strong>, Jim Thome and Fred McGriff. None of those four players are in the Hall, and only Bagwell and McGriff are eligible. Ramirez is in my mind the most similar to Thomas, in that they were both right handed power hitters who played poor defense, but Thomas drew many more walks than Ramirez. Bagwell is in a sense the most similar player. McGriff and Thome were both left handed. Pujols (822) is also similar to Thomas, but again is a better fielder. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/foxxji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jimmie Foxx</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mantlmi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mickey Mantle</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccovwi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Willie McCovey</a></strong> are also similar to Thomas (between 800-850) and all are in the Hall of Fame. <br />
<br />
<strong>8. Do the players numbers meet hall of fame standards?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Thomas scores a 60 on the standards test, well above the 50 of an average hall of famer. <br />
<br />
<strong>9. Is there evidence that the player was significantly better or worse than his statistics show?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
I would argue that Thomas' defense was a liability. In 1997 he played only 97 games at first but committed 11 errors, the third most in the AL. By that point he was a professional hitter only due to back and arm problems. However, his bat produced far more runs than his defense gave away. Thomas was the model for OPS before OPS was cool; he led the league in walks and OBP four times. Unfortunately none of his teammates could hit like Thomas. <br />
<br />
<strong>10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but has not been inducted?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
No; I would argue Bagwell is the best first baseman who is currently eligible. <br />
<br />
<strong>11. How many MVP type seasons did he have? Did he win any MVPs? How many times was he close?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Thomas won back to back MVPs in 1993 and 1994. He finished second in 2000 and third in 1991 and 1997. He was in the top ten in the voting nine times in his fourteen full seasons, an impressive record for any player. He was the comeback player of the year in 2000.<br />
<br />
<strong>12. How many All Star seasons did he have? How many All Star games did he play in?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Unbelievably, Thomas was selected to only 5 All Star games. In 1991 he finished third in the MVP voting, won the Silver Slugger award....but <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fieldce01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Cecil Fielder</a></strong> and Rafael Palmeiro were the first basemen for the AL. In 1992 he was 8th in the MVP voting, led the league in doubles and walks....but <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgwima01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Mark McGwire</a></strong> was the all star starter and Thomas did not even get selected. The AL had a pretty good DH that year in <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/molitpa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Paul Molitor</a></strong>. Five all star games is not a lot for a hall of famer. <br />
<br />
<strong>13. If this man were the best player on the team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Absolutely.<br />
<br />
<strong>14. What impact did the player have on baseball history?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Thomas at one point held the record for most HR by a DH. He is still the career leader in multiple categories (HR, RBI, BB) for the White Sox. I think one of the reasons Thomas is overlooked is that by the year 2000, Thomas was just what the DH position was intended for: players who could still hit but could not longer play the field. This view of him as a "all hit-no field player" tends to discount his earlier accomplishments. <br />
<br />
<strong>15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?</strong><br />
<strong></strong><br />
Thomas had a very good relationship with the fans in Chicago throughout his time there, and was a noted leader in the locker room. He is known to be an outspoken proponent of drug testing for MLB and has said in the past that he got his 500 home runs "clean". I would say yes to this question.<br />
<br />
For me, Thomas is a strange case. Bagwell will probably be voted in first, but Thomas is deserving. That said, however, is this because he put up 500 HR clean? What will we do with McGwire and Palmeiro? For that matter, what about <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/murphda05.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Dale Murphy</a></strong> who won back to back MVPs in the 1980s, only to have his hitting records swamped by the steroid era? Thomas suffers because by the time he started to break down other players were bulking up. For seven years (1991-1997) Thomas was as good a right handed hitter as many of us had ever seen, and again, finishing in the top 10 in MVP voting 9 times in a career is impressive.<br />
<br />
<br />
<strong></strong> </div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-53645158538736123292013-11-12T11:03:00.002-08:002013-11-28T09:58:48.292-08:00The Keltner List -- Jeff Kent<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
This is the second installment of the Keltner List saga, this time starring <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kentje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jeff Kent</a></strong>. 2014 is Kent's first year on the ballot. <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kentje01.shtml">Jeff Kent Player Page at BBRef</a><br />
<br />
1. Was Kent ever regarded as the best player in baseball?<br />
<br />
No. Kent was one of those players that no one paid much attention to, but who consistently put up excellent numbers. He was never considered to be the best player in baseball, to my knowledge.<br />
<br />
2. Was he the best player on his team?<br />
<br />
Let us look at the various teams which employed Jeff Kent for more than a partial season.<br />
<ul>
<li>1992-1996 New York Mets: on these rotten teams, Kent or <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=murraed02,murray002edd&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Eddie Murray</a></strong> were the best players. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bonilbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bobby Bonilla</a></strong> was hurt most of the time, and Gooden was at the mid point of his career implosion. </li>
<li>1997-2002 San Francisco Giants: <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong> was the best player on all of these teams, but Kent was second best. </li>
<li>2003-04 Houston Astros: Kent was in the top three. Even though the Astros had <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Craig Biggio</a></strong>, they got Kent and installed him at second base. The Astros had <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/ensbemo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Morgan Ensberg</a></strong> at third, and he provided 25 home runs in 2003. </li>
<li>2005-08 Los Angeles Dodgers: On the 2005 Dodgers, a team which featured Hee Seop Choi and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/saenzol01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Olmedo Saenz</a></strong> at first base, you bet Jeff Kent was the best player on the team. What it means to be the best player on a team that lost 90 games, I have no idea.</li>
</ul>
3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position?<br />
<br />
Between 1997 and 2005, Kent was the best offensive second baseman in the game. He did not have the defense of Alomar or Biggio, but he hit a ton and drove in runs in bunches. Alomar stole more bases, as did Biggio. Kent certainly feasted on the pitchers avoiding Barry Bonds, but on teams such as the 1993 Mets (21 HR, 80 RBI) and the 2005 Dodgers (65 XBH, 105 RBI with little offensive protection) Kent was the most dangerous or second most dangerous player in the lineup. If not, he is in the top three with Biggio and Alomar. <br />
<br />
4. Did he have an impact on pennant races?<br />
<ul>
<li>Traded to the Indians in 1996, Kent slashed .265/.322/.428 and played little part in the race. </li>
<li>In 1997, the Giants overtook the Dodgers in a three game series in September at 3 Com park. Kent went 1-11 with six strikeouts. Against the Dodgers for the year, Kent hit .105 with 16 strikeouts in 38 at bats. If anything, this could have been a <em>negative</em> impact. </li>
<li>In 2000, the Giants moved into first on July 29th, and Kent hit like a machine for the rest of the year, .300 with 16 HR and 36 RBI over his last 57 games. He then went 6-16 in a four game NLCS loss to the Mets. </li>
<li>In the 2002 World Series, Kent hit three home runs and had 7 RBI. This was lost in the "is this Bonds' moment" stuff, but he had a very good series. </li>
<li>In 2003 with the Astros, Kent slashed at a .330/.398/.526 clip in September and October. In a key series with the Cardinals from Sept 12-14, Kent went 4-9 with three doubles as the Astros moved a game ahead in the central; they wound up 1 game behind the Cubs</li>
<li>In 2004, the Astros finished with the NL wild card. Kent hit .366 with 3 HR and 14 RBI against the first place Cardinals.</li>
</ul>
5.Was he a good enough player that he could play regularly after passing his prime?<br />
<br />
Absolutely. Kent's last very good season was in 2005 at age 37. He still put up an .875 OPS at age 39 with the Dodgers. In his last season at age 40 he hit 12 HR but was almost immobile in the field. <br />
<br />
6. Is he the very best player in history who is not in the hall of fame?<br />
<br />
No.<br />
<br />
7. Are most players with comparable statistics in the hall of fame?<br />
<br />
No players are truly comparable to Kent, which is a point in his favor. The closest is <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrad01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Adrian Beltre</a></strong> (873). The only second baseman in his top ten list is <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sandbry01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Ryne Sandberg</a></strong> (802) who is in the hall of fame. Most of the rest are third baseman and outfielders, with two (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riceji01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jim Rice</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santoro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Ron Santo</a></strong>) in the Hall. Kent was the inheritor (along with Brent Boone) to Ryne Sandberg's mantle of the best power hitting second baseman in baseball. Kent was not close to Sandberg defensively, however. <br />
<br />
8. Do the numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?<br />
<br />
Kent scores a 51 on the standards list, with a likely hall of famer being at 50. Kent remains 49th in history in RBIs, and is third all time among second basemen. He is the career leader in HR for second basemen. <br />
<br />
9. Is there evidence to suggest that the player was better than his statistics show?<br />
<br />
Kent did not have great range as a second baseman, but his defensive stats show that he was solid up the middle until his mid 30s. His offensive stats are very good, but he was playing in a period of high offensive numbers. <br />
<br />
10. Is he the best player at his position eligible for the Hall of Fame who has not been enshrined?<br />
<br />
I would argue he is second, behind <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grichbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bobby Grich</a></strong> and virtually tied with Craig Biggio.<br />
<br />
11. How many MVP type seasons did the player have? Did he ever win an MVP award? How many times was he close?<br />
<br />
Kent was the NL MVP in 2000 (.334/.424/.596, 33 HR 125 RBI) and was in the top ten in voting three times (1997, 1998 and 2002). <br />
<br />
12. How many All Star seasons did he have? How many all star teams did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go into the hall of fame?<br />
<br />
Kent started four all star games and was selected for five. This is a fairly low total for a prospective hall of famer. <br />
<br />
13. If this man was the best on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?<br />
<br />
I don't think so, but Kent in his prime years (1999-2002) would make a team interesting. The 2005 Dodgers lost 90 games with Kent as the best player with JD Drew injured. in Kent's defense he was 37 years old. <br />
<br />
14. What impact did the player have on baseball history?<br />
<br />
Kent helped Bonds along the road to breaking Aaron's record, but not as much as the steroids. The same could be said of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=willima04,willima09,willima03,willia015mat,willia011mat&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Matt Williams</a></strong>, however. <br />
<br />
15. Did the player uphold the standards of the Hall of Fame?<br />
<br />
Before he left the Giants, Kent broke his wrist in a motorcycle accident but claimed he fell from his truck while washing the bed. This violated his contract at the same time that he and Barry Bonds were publicly feuding. He also appeared on <em>Survivor</em>, but many people have made that mistake. He did win the 1998 Willie Mac Award from the Giants through a vote by his fellow players. Kent would be no worse (and perhaps a quite better citizen) than many members of the hall. <br />
<br />
I would argue that Kent deserves a lot of consideration; he and Biggio will probably split votes this year, with Biggio getting elected before Kent. Biggio had a better relationship with the media and (most) of his teammates. He would not be a bad selection for the Hall. <br />
<br />
<ul>
</ul>
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-29675350509553698992013-11-11T08:17:00.001-08:002013-11-30T15:56:28.070-08:00The Keltner List -- Craig Biggio<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Back in the 1990s, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=jamesbi02,jamesbi01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bill James</a></strong> wrote an excellent book titled <em>The Politics of Glory</em>, which detailed the history of the baseball Hall of Fame. As is his wont, it also engaged in some lively statistical analysis and debate over the worthiness of many good (and great players). One thing that has stuck in my mind is the so-called Keltner List, a series of 15 questions.<br />
<br />
The list is named for third baseman <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/keltnke01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Ken Keltner</a></strong>, perhaps best known for making outstanding defensive plays to stop <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dimagjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Joe DiMaggio</a></strong>'s 56 game hitting streak in 1941. James describes the list as an "outline of the things that one might expect in a hall of fame player." (James, <em>Politics of Glory</em>, 275) I have decided to put several players through the Keltner list in anticipation of the Hall of Fame voting to be announced in January. <br />
<br />
Up first is <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Craig Biggio</a></strong>, in his second year on the ballot. Biggio received 68% of the vote last year. All stats from <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/">www.baseball-reference.com</a> <br />
<br />
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li> Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody suggest, while he was active, that he was the best player in baseball?</li>
<ol>
<li>From 1988 to 1991, Biggio was one of the best catchers in the NL, perhaps in baseball. He moved to second base in 1992 and won 4 gold gloves at that position (1994-97). He was always held as a great player. He certainly is one of the most versatile players of the last 50 years. Bill James famously argued in the late 1990s that Biggio was the best player in baseball, and wrote about it at length in the second edition of the <em>Historical Baseball Analyst.</em></li>
</ol>
<li>Was he the best player on his team?</li>
<ol>
<li>This is tough. I would argue that Biggio was the best player on the Astros in 1997 and 1998, even better than Bagwell. Biggio led the league in runs, stole bases and played above average defense at a more demanding position than Bagwell. It could be argued that between 1994 and 2000, Biggio was the best player on his team, or at least a very close second to Bagwell.</li>
</ol>
<li>Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?</li>
<ol>
<li>As a catcher, he was valued more for his offense than defense. As a second baseman, perhaps the best in his league (though <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kentje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Jeff Kent</a></strong> may have a say). At his peak (1993-1998), Biggio was one of the top two second baseman in the NL, and those two usually rounded out the top three with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alomaro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Roberto Alomar</a></strong>. One could not go wrong with any of those players at second. As an outfielder, he was not the best player in his position either in baseball or in the National League. </li>
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<li>Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?</li>
<ol>
<li>In 1997, Biggio triple slashed .284/.424/.482 in August and September as the Astros hung on to 1st place in the NL central. He also swiped 27 bases in his last 54 games. </li>
<li>On July 31, 1998 the Astros were in first by 3.5 games. Biggio hit .338 down the stretch with 8 HR and 17 SB as the Astros went 37-14 to win the division by 13 games. </li>
<li>In 2004, the Astros won 45 of their last 69 games. Biggio hit only .254 but slugged 11 HR.</li>
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<li>Was he a good enough player to play regularly once he was past his prime?</li>
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<li>Biggio was a productive player until his late 30s, not really falling off until 2005 when he was 39. </li>
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<li>Is he the best player in baseball history who is NOT in the Hall of Fame?</li>
<ol>
<li>I would argue not, but he is certainly in the top 10 on that score. I would argue <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Albert Pujols</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=rodrial01,rodrig011ale&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Alex Rodriguez</a></strong> are the best players not in the hall, and two of them are not eligible and two are tainted by steroids. </li>
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<li>Are most players with comparable statistics in the hall of fame?</li>
<ol>
<li>According to Baseball Reference, no player is truly comparable to Biggio. Player comps are rated on a scale to 1000, with 1000 being perfect comparableness. The highest comp scores are for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/yountro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Robin Yount</a></strong> (836) and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Derek Jeter</a></strong> (823). Baseball Reference lists 10 players as most comparable, and seven are in the Hall. Of the other three, Jeter most certainly will be elected one day, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/whitalo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Lou Whitaker</a></strong> is a borderline candidate and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/damonjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Johnny Damon</a></strong> is anyone's guess. As James points out, "great players usually have no true comparable, as they are unique." (James, 280)</li>
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<li>Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?</li>
<ol>
<li>Again, this info is recorded on baseball-reference.com, which uses an adaptation of James' standards. By James' calculation, an average hall of famer would score a 50, a truly great player (such as <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruthba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Babe Ruth</a></strong> or <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnswa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Walter Johnson</a></strong>) would score close to 100. Biggio scores a respectable 57.</li>
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<li>Is there evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?</li>
<ol>
<li>Biggio was a full time catcher for his first three seasons, and was average defensively. He then became a full time second baseman for the rest of his career with the exception of a two year exile in center field after the Astros signed Jeff Kent. Biggio was a good leadoff and second place hitter. When the Astros had <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=huntebr02,huntebr01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Brian Hunter</a></strong>, Biggio batted second. Biggio was greatly respected as a team leader and hustle player. His batting helmet contained pine tar from what seemed like six presidential administrations. He and Bagwell are still very much the faces of the Astros franchise, serving as two of the "Killer Bees" of the 1990s. Add in the fact that Biggio was talented enough to make all star teams at two of the most demanding defensive positions, and that adds up to an excellent player. </li>
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<li>Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the hall of fame but not inducted?</li>
<ol>
<li>Perhaps, but Jeff Kent is a close second. I would rate Biggio higher than Lou Whitaker. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grichbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bobby Grich</a></strong> is still not inducted and should be, and I would rate him as better than Biggio. Grich played in a less favorable offensive era and was much better defensively. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/randowi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Willie Randolph</a></strong> is a tough case, but I like Biggio. Biggio hit for more power than Randolph, and got on base nearly as much. Plus, Biggio spent his career (until 2000) in the Astrodome and still had three seasons of 20 plus home runs. Granted, the 1990s was a time in which a dead man might hit a home run here or there, but Biggio was the better player.</li>
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<li>How many MVP type season did the player have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?</li>
<ol>
<li>Biggio never won an MVP award, but finished in the top 10 in voting three times (1994, 1995, 1997 and 1998). His 1998 season, (in which he hit .325, led the league in doubles, stole 50 bases and posted 210 hits) was lost in the steroid shuffle to 70 home runs. He deserved better than to finish fifth that year. I mean, a gold glove second baseman with 50 steals and an OPS of .906? </li>
<li>1997 and 1998 were probably Biggio's best years, and were thought to be close to MVP caliber by the sportswriters. </li>
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<li>How many All-Star type seasons did he have? how many all star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played this many go to the hall of fame?</li>
<ol>
<li>Biggio played in six all star games, including the 1991 game as a catcher. Of the second baseman who played in six or more all star games, only Grich and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/richabo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Bobby Richardson</a></strong> are not in, and Biggio was a much better player than Richardson.</li>
</ol>
<li>If this man were the best on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?</li>
<ol>
<li>I don't know. It would certainly contend, but I don't think it would win a pennant. Biggio got on base very well, ran extremely well for most of his career and had excellent gap power. On a team with some big bats behind him (such as Bagwell, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bellde01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.blogger.com" target="_blank">Derek Bell</a></strong> or Jeff Kent) he scored 110 runs a year. </li>
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<li>What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he change the game in any way?</li>
<ol>
<li>Minimal.</li>
</ol>
<li>Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the hall of fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?</li>
<ol>
<li>Certainly. Biggio was held as a team leader and gave a lot of his time to various causes in Houston. </li>
</ol>
</ol>
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I would think that Biggio is an excellent hall of fame candidate, and should be voted in.<br />
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-65540018243841841712013-10-25T09:09:00.000-07:002013-12-12T07:17:48.319-08:00World Series Errors<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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With the first two games of the World Series featuring seven errors and multiple mental mistakes, it may be interesting to revisit the most famous errors in World Series history. It is also the 27th anniversary of the Buckner Error.<br />
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It seems fitting that the first error in modern (since 1903) World Series history was made by a member of the Boston Americans (now Red Sox). Second baseman <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/ferriho01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Hobe Ferris</a></strong> (the chap on the left) booted a ball hit by Pittsburgh's <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/branski01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Kitty Bransfield</a></strong> in the first inning of the first game. There were two further throwing errors in the inning, leading to three runs for the Pirates. <br />
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On October 16, 1912, the New York Giants entered the 9th inning of game 8 (series tied 3-3 due to game two being called a tie because of darkness) needing three outs to win their first series since 1905. The Giants were beaten the previous year by the Philadelphia A's. Again, this series featured the Red Sox. Pinch hitter Claude Engle hit a fly ball out to center fielder <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/snodgfr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Fred Snodgrass</a></strong>. <br />
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Describing what happened, Snodgrass said "I got under it and, well, I dropped the darn thing." Engle wound up on second base. <br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiSdB7SF1DmikH2mcK7p-5WU4SZvokqGuQonYnnTktW2yXhAXSYFp2HWlW88cTP0Be6_ELdRuvRtx7T6kgZLZu2JKGjRD7604CLJYfYnMzbrH4gcc0d-xtA_JWvHL9S9cXvjYnWjHp-aIo/s1600/Fred%2520Snodgrass%2520NYG%25201.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiSdB7SF1DmikH2mcK7p-5WU4SZvokqGuQonYnnTktW2yXhAXSYFp2HWlW88cTP0Be6_ELdRuvRtx7T6kgZLZu2JKGjRD7604CLJYfYnMzbrH4gcc0d-xtA_JWvHL9S9cXvjYnWjHp-aIo/s320/Fred%2520Snodgrass%2520NYG%25201.jpg" height="320" width="228" /></a></div>
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The next hitter, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hoopeha01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Harry Hooper</a></strong>, hit a line drive into deep center field. Snodgrass made a fine catch on the ball, but Engle tagged up and reached third. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mathech01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Christy Mathewson</a></strong> walked the next hitter, then gave up a single to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/speaktr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tris Speaker</a></strong> which tied the game at 2. After an intentional walk which set up a would be double play, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gardnla01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Larry Gardner</a></strong> lifted a sacrifice fly to score <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/yerkest02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Steve Yerkes</a></strong> and win the series for the Sox. Unlike <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bucknbi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bill Buckner</a></strong>'s error in the 1986 series, the Snodgrass Muff in 1912 <em>did</em> cost the Giants the series. Snodgrass survived until 1974 and became a very successful banker. He also served as mayor of Oxnard, California. However, his obituary led with the error he made over 60 years before. <br />
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Errors deciding game seven in the World Series are very rare. <br />
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1. In 1925, the Washington Senators led 7-6 as the bottom of the 8th inning started. After two quick outs, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnswa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Walter Johnson</a></strong> gave up two doubles and a walk to tie the game. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/careyma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Max Carey</a></strong> then reached on an error by third baseman Ossie Bleuge. The next hitter, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cuyleki01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Kiki Cuyler</a></strong>, pounded a ground rule double into right field, scoring two runs. The Pirates won the game and the series. <br />
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2. In game 7 of the 1926 World Series, the Cardinals scored two runs in the fourth inning off two errors by the Yankees and went on to win the game 3-2. This is the famous game where Grover Cleveland Alexander struck out <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lazzeto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tony Lazzeri</a></strong> with the bases loaded in the seventh inning. <br />
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3. In 2001, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gracema01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mark Grace</a></strong> led off with a single to center field off of <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riverma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mariano Rivera</a></strong>. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/milleda02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Damian Miller</a></strong> followed with a sacrifice bunt, but <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/posadjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jorge Posada</a></strong> made a poor throw trying to get Grace at second. The next hitter bunted as well, which forced Grace at third. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/womacto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tony Womack</a></strong> then doubled into right field, tying the game. After hitting <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/counscr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Craig Counsell</a></strong>, Rivera gave up a soft line drive single to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gonzalu01,gonzalu02,gonzal012lui,gonzal014lui,gonzal018lui,gonzal011lui&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Luis Gonzalez</a></strong>, which won the series for the Diamondbacks. <br />
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4. In 1997, Craig Counsell (yep, same guy) reached on an error by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fernato01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tony Fernandez</a></strong>. This put runners on the corners with one out in the bottom of the ninth. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bonilbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bobby Bonilla</a></strong> was forced at home after an intentional walk. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/renteed01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Edgar Renteria</a></strong> then singled to center field to score Counsell and win the series for the Florida Marlins. It is interesting that Counsell should hold such a place in world series game sevens with expansion teams. <br />
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Bill Buckner's famous error in the 1986 world series did <em>not</em> happen in game seven. It happened in game six. It tied up the series for the Mets, who went on in Game 7 to score three runs off <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schirca01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Calvin Schiraldi</a></strong> in the bottom of the seventh inning to win. What is also forgotten about the Buckner miscue is that it happened <em>after the game was tied</em>. The Mets won the game on Buckner's error, but they tied it on back to back singles followed by a wild pitch by <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stanlbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bob Stanley</a></strong>. The wild pitch also put <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/knighra01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Ray Knight</a></strong> on second base instead of first. No wild pitch, Buckner's error puts runners at first and third with two outs, and the Red Sox are still alive. <br />
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-9344438256175363802013-10-23T12:49:00.000-07:002013-11-28T22:24:27.870-08:00Matty vs. Miner: Sept 4, 1916<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
On Sept 4, 1916, the Chicago Cubs and the Cincinnati Reds met for a Labor Day doubleheader in Chicago. In the first game, the Reds lost 3-0, a not uncommon occurrence for the Reds that year. The second game, however, was something else entirely.<br />
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Earlier that season, the New York Giants traded <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mathech01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Christy Mathewson</a></strong> to the Reds in exchange for manager/second baseman <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/herzobu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Buck Herzog</a></strong> and two other players. The trade worked wonders for the Giants, who embarked soon after on a 26 game winning streak. For the Reds, the ship of the 1916 season had sailed. While "Matty" got the Reds playing better baseball, they could only win 25 of their remaining 68 games and finished seventh. In the meantime, the Cubs were in the middle of the pack as the doubleheader started. The great club of the previous decade was long gone; only Wildfire Schulte and Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown remained. Of the great rivalries of the first decade of the twentieth century, none surpassed that between Christy Mathewson and Three Finger Brown.<br />
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That Monday, Brown was 39 and Matty 35. They were opponents 23 times before that day; Mathewson won 12 and Brown 11. During the 1908 season, when the Cubs finished one game ahead of the Giants and Pirates, Brown defeated Mathewson twice during the heat of the pennant race. That year Mathewson won 37 games, Brown 29. Coincidentally, 1908 was the last time the Cubs won a World Series. <br />
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The last time they pitched against each other was July 15, 1913 at the Polo Grounds in New York. Mathewson won that game; at the end of the season Brown jumped to the Federal League. He returned to the Cubs for the 1916 season.<br />
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The matchup was touted as the farewell match of the great pitchers; both were awarded bouquets and loving cups by the Cubs, and the games was noted in newspapers throughout the United States. <em>Baseball Magazine </em>had this to say: "while the old speed was gone, hurlers now could take lessons from the great control exhibited by both men." The game was quite different then.<br />
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Both pitchers threw complete games, and both were hit hard. Mathewson gave up two runs in the first inning, but the Reds touched up Brown for two runs in the 3rd, 5th and 6th innings. In the 9th, Matty gave up three runs but the Reds held on to win 10-8. Were the men taking it easy? Maybe. Brown and Mathewson totaled 5 hits by themselves. <br />
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Picture a game in which both pitchers are hall of famers, both are in their last season, and both throw complete games. Since 2005, the highest pitch count in the majors belongs to <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksed01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Edwin Jackson</a></strong>, who tossed 149 on June 25, 2010. He had an excuse, as he was threw a no-hitter. Using Tom Tango's pitch estimate calculator, Brown threw 157 pitches and Mathewson 145. <br />
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This was Mathewson's 373rd career victory, and his last. When he retired, only <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youngcy01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Cy Young</a></strong> had won more games. He is still tied for third with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alexape01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Pete Alexander</a></strong> behind Young and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnswa01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Walter Johnson</a></strong>. He was also second in strikeouts. Brown finished with 239 wins and only 130 losses. <br />
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Between 1907 and 1910 the record for the duos are eerily similar. <br />
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<span style="font-family: Calibri;">W-L</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">CG</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.9pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">SHO</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 44.65pt;" valign="top" width="74"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">H</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">ER</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">BB</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">SO</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 42.2pt;" valign="top" width="70"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">SV</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 44.05pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">ERA</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 39.8pt;" valign="top" width="66"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<o:p><span style="font-family: Calibri;"> </span></o:p></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 1;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 46.5pt;" valign="top" width="78"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">174</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 44.1pt;" valign="top" width="74"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">101-38</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">106</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.9pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">29</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 44.65pt;" valign="top" width="74"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">896</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">198</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">206</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">545</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 42.2pt;" valign="top" width="70"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">22</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 44.05pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1.51</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 39.8pt;" valign="top" width="66"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Brown</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 2; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 46.5pt;" valign="top" width="78"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">172</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 44.1pt;" valign="top" width="74"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">113-38</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">118</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.9pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">29</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 44.65pt;" valign="top" width="74"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1015</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">234</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">191</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 43.4pt;" valign="top" width="72"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">770</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 42.2pt;" valign="top" width="70"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">9</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 44.05pt;" valign="top" width="73"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1.62</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 39.8pt;" valign="top" width="66"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Matty</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
Yes, Brown recorded 22 saves while he threw 29 shutouts. In those days, managers used their best pitchers at the ends of close games. In the height of the Deadball Era, Brown and Matty were the best pitchers on two of the best three teams in the National League. Mathewson is also perhaps the only pitcher who could conceivably be accused of single handedly winning a World Series. In 1905, he threw three shutouts at the Rube Waddell-less Philadelphia A's.<br />
<br />
After the season, Brown went and pitched for a few years in Indiana, finally hanging it up in 1920 to operate a gas station in Terre Haute. He died in 1948, roughly a year before he was elected to the Hall of Fame by the Old Timers Committee. It always surprised me that Brown did not get more support for the Hall than he did, topping out at 27%, behind pitchers Rube Waddell, Ed Walsh and Herb Pennock. Brown not getting as many votes as Pennock is, well, silly. <br />
<br />
Mathewson returned to manage the Reds the next season, and volunteered for the US Army in 1918. He joined the Gas and Flame Corps, and was exposed to mustard gas during training. He never managed or played again, but did work for the Giants as a coach in 1919-1920 and as President of the Boston Braves in 1923. He worked as a sportswriter, and with Hugh Fullerton sought to expose the Black Sox after the 1919 World Series. It should also be pointed out that when manager of the Reds in 1917 and 1918, he suspended <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/chaseha01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Hal Chase</a></strong> for "indifferent play", widely considered a euphemism for throwing games by the sporting press. <br />
<br />
Mathewson developed tuberculosis in 1919 and eventually died of the disease on October 7, 1925. He was elected to the hall of fame in its first class in 1936. <br />
<br />
(all stats courtesy of <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/">www.baseball-reference.com</a>. Info also from the SABR bio project entries for Christy Mathewson and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brownmo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mordecai Brown</a></strong>)</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1464462926311228286.post-41522822444147796012013-10-23T11:58:00.002-07:002013-11-28T22:10:23.144-08:00Are Jim Leyland and Davey Johnson hall of fame managers?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leylaji99.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jim Leyland</a></strong> stepped down earlier this week as the manager of the Detroit Tigers. He is now 68, and this may be his last managing job. He is the leader in active managers in wins, leading <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bakerdu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Dusty Baker</a></strong> by 98. Is Leyland a Hall of Fame manager?<br />
<br />
<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsda02.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Davey Johnson</a></strong> stepped down as manager of the Washington Nationals two weeks ago. Johnson is 70 and says he is not interested in managing again. Johnson first played in the majors with the Baltimore Orioles in 1965 and took over as the starting second baseman in 1966. He played for Baltimore until 1972 when he was traded to Atlanta in a six players deal (which involved another future Orioles manager, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/oatesjo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Johnny Oates</a></strong>). Is Johnson a Hall of Fame manager?<br />
<br />
Johnson was a good player. Selected to 4 All Star games, he won three gold gloves and hit 43 home runs in 1973, benefiting from the "Launching Pad" of Fulton County Stadium (the Braves hit 118 of their 206 home runs at home that year.) Johnson managed in the minors for three years and was promoted to manage the New York Mets in 1984.<br />
<br />
Like many good baseball managers, Leyland never played in the major leagues. His highest level as a player was AA, and as a catcher hit .208 in 161 games. He pitched in two games as well. Leyland managed in the minors for 10 years, from 1972 to 1981. His teams posted a winning season 7 times. He managed a young <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gibsoki01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Kirk Gibson</a></strong> at Lakeland in A ball. He then worked for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larusto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tony LaRussa</a></strong> in Chicago between 1982-85. He took over the Pirates following the 1985 season.<br />
<br />
<br />
<strong><u>Overall Records</u></strong> (all stats courtesy of <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/">www.baseball-reference.com</a>):<br />
<br />
Jim Leyland: 22 seasons, 3497 games, 1769-1728, .506 winning percentage<br />
Rankings: 15th all time in wins, 14th all time in games.<br />
<br />
Davey Johnson: 17 seasons, 2443 games, 1372-1071, .562 winning percentage.<br />
Rankings: 28th all time in wins, 21st all time in winning percentage, 30th all time in games.<br />
<br />
Leyland took over the Pirates when they were in full on rebuilding mode, then guided them to the top of the division for three consecutive seasons. Leyland's first Tigers team in 2006 posted a 25 game improvement over the previous year, even though <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grandcu01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Curtis Granderson</a></strong> and the arrival of some kid named Verlander had a lot to do with that. <br />
<br />
Johnson's Mets teams finished first or second every year from 1984-1989 and were in second place in 1990 when he was fired. In <em>Baseball's Greatest Dynasties</em>, Rob Neyer and Eddie Epstein wrote that if the second and first place finishes were reversed, the 1980s Mets would be considered one of the best teams of the 20th century. Those Mets won 87 games every year, but finished second 4 times. Two of those teams, the St. Louis Cardinals of 1985 and 1987, went to the World Series. The two others, the Cubs of 1984 and 1989, were pretty fluky teams. <br />
<br />
In addition, of the 33 people who have managed over 2400 games in their careers, only 5 have higher career winning percentages than Johnson; all of them are in the Hall of Fame. <br />
<br />
<strong><u>Playoffs:</u></strong><br />
Leyland: 8 playoff appearances, 44-40 overall record.<br />
6 division titles, 3 pennants, 1 World Series (1997 Florida Marlins)<br />
<br />
Johnson: 5 playoff appearances, 19-21 overall record.<br />
6 division titles, 1 pennant, 1 World Series (1986 New York Mets)<br />
<br />
Johnson managed the 1994 Reds, who were 18 games over .500 when the strike ended the season in August. They won the division in 1995.<br />
<br />
While Leyland has more pennants, each has one world series title. Johnson's teams made the playoffs the same number of times as Leyland's (if you count 1994) and Leyland managed for 5 more seasons than Johnson.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>Awards:</u></strong><br />
Leyland: three time manager of the year (1990, 1992, 2006) three time runner up for that award (1988, 1991, 2011)<br />
<br />
Johnson: Two time manager of the year (1997, 2012), four time runner up for that award (1984, 1986,1994,1995)<br />
<br />
Again, even.<br />
<br />
<strong><u>Odds and Ends</u></strong><br />
1. Johnson's teams were consistently good. Only during four years did he post a losing record:<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> 1990, when he was fired at 20-22.</li>
<li>1993, when he took over the Reds from <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/perezto01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tony Perez</a></strong>. Johnson was 8 games over .500 until August 9th and the Reds collapsed down the stretch. </li>
<li>the 1999 Dodgers are the only team <em>managed by Johnson for a full season with a losing record.</em></li>
<li>the 2011 Nationals, whom Johnson took over after <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rigglji99.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jim Riggleman</a></strong> was fired. </li>
</ul>
2. Johnson is 301 games over .500 for his career. This is the 15th highest total of all time, and only 5 of the 14 managers in front of him managed fewer games. All of them (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/southbi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Billy Southworth</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/ansonca01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Cap Anson</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wrighha01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Harry Wright</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lopezal01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Al Lopez</a></strong> and Frank Selee) are in the hall of fame. Anson as a player, Wright as a player, manager and organizer. Three did the majority of their managing in the 1890s. Billy Southworth is the greatest "forgotten" manager in baseball history.<br />
<br />
3. Johnson brought <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/goodedw01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Dwight Gooden</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/darliro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Ron Darling</a></strong>, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=backmwa01,backma002wal&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Wally Backman</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fernasi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Sid Fernandez</a></strong> with him in 1984, and was the ULTIMATE creative manager who would do just about anything to get people into a lineup and got great bench production. Evidence:<br />
<ul>
<li>In 1986, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mitchke01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Kevin Mitchell</a></strong> played 24 games.....at shortstop. Kevin Mitchell was a subpar fielder at first base, for goodness sakes. </li>
<li>On July 22, 1986 in Cincinnati, Johnson alternated <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcdowro01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Roger McDowell</a></strong>, his righthanded closer, and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/oroscje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jesse Orosco</a></strong>, his lefty specialist. When a righty came up, McDowell would move in to pitcher from left field and Orosco would go to right, with <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wilsomo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mookie Wilson</a></strong> moving over to left. When a lefty came up, they would switch back. The Mets won the game 6-3 in 14 innings, with this unorthodox arrangement tossing five scoreless innings. Orosco also drew a walk and scored on <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsho01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Howard Johnson</a></strong>'s home run in the 14th.</li>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bransje01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Jeff Branson</a></strong> was the best utility player in the NL in 1994 and 1995, hitting 18 home runs in 440 at bats over those two years. For the rest of his career he totaled 16 homers in 1115 at bats.</li>
</ul>
<br />
4. Leyland was a different sort of manager, one that would take over teams and gradually turn them into winners. He was usually quite good at developing younger talent. When he took over the Pirates in 1986, the starting rotation was<br />
<ul>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rhoderi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Rick Rhoden</a></strong> (traded after the season to the Yankees for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/drabedo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Doug Drabek</a></strong>)</li>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reuscri01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Rick Reuschel</a></strong> (age 37, traded the next year to the Giants)</li>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bielemi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mike Bielecki</a></strong> (who won 10 games in parts of four years with the Pirates)</li>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kippebo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bob Kipper</a></strong> (who filled the "lefty reliever" role for the Pirate teams of the late 1980s)</li>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcwilla01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Larry McWilliams</a></strong> (at age 32, he would win only 13 more games in his career).</li>
</ul>
However, the youngsters were on the way, and Leyland oversaw their development:<br />
<ul>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smilejo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">John Smiley</a></strong> (21), <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Barry Bonds</a></strong> (21) debuted in 1986. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bonilbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bobby Bonilla</a></strong> in 1987, along with the great trade that brought <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vanslan01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Andy Van Slyke</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lavalmi01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Mike LaValliere</a></strong> to the Pirates in exchange for <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=penato01,penato02,penato03&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Tony Pena</a></strong>. The two pitchers that were gotten for Rhoden (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fishebr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Brian Fisher</a></strong> and Drabek) combined for 22 wins in 1987.</li>
</ul>
With the Tigers, Leyland managed the development of Verlander, <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/porceri01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Rick Porcello</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/scherma01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Max Scherzer</a></strong>.<br />
<br />
5. <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=jamesbi02,jamesbi01&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bill James</a></strong> produced the Pythagorean winning percentage, which predicts a teams record based on its runs scored and allowed. It is used to identify teams who play above or below their statistics for various reasons. Here are the Pythagorean records of Johnson's teams, with their actual records and difference:<br />
<br />
<br />
<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="MsoTableGrid" style="border-collapse: collapse; border: currentColor; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184;">
<tbody>
<tr style="mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; mso-yfti-irow: 0;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: 1pt solid windowtext; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Year</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Actual</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">Pythag</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">+/_</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 1;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1984</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">90-72</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">78-84</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">+12</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 2;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1985</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">98-64</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">96-66</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">+2</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 3;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1986</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">108-54</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">103-59</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">+5</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 4;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1987</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">92-70</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">93-69</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">-1</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 5;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1988</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">100-60</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">100-60</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">0</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 6;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1989</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">87-75</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">91-71</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">-4</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 7;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1994</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">66-48</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">68-46</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">-2</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 8;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1995</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">85-59</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">84-60</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">+1</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 9;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1996</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">88-74</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">85-77</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">+3</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 10;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1997</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">98-64</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">94-68</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">+4</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 11;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">1999</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">77-85</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">82-80</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">-5</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 12;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">2000</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">86-76</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">88-74</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">-2</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 13;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">2012</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">98-64</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">96-66</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">+2</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 14; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes;">
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">2013</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">86-76</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">84-78</span></div>
</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0) windowtext windowtext rgb(0, 0, 0); border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 1pt 1pt 0px; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 119.7pt;" valign="top" width="200"><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri;">+2</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
In 14 full seasons, Johnson's teams outperformed their Pythagorean expectation by 17 games. In 22 seasons, Leyland was at a +/- of 0. <br />
<br />
6. Baseball-Reference has a stat called "average rank", which is the average finish of a manager's teams. Johnson and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=mccarjo02,mccarjo99&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Joe McCarthy</a></strong> are the only managers at 2.0 (second) or better who managed over 2000 games. Johnson is at 1.9. McCarthy at 2 even. McCarthy was the manager of the New York Yankees from 1931 to 1946 and won seven world series titles in 16 years.<br />
<br />
Johnson's teams were consistently competitive, as were Leyland's when he had the horses. Only 6 managers have more postseason appearances than Leyland. Three (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stengca01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Casey Stengel</a></strong>, Joe McCarthy and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=mcgrajo01,mcgrajo02&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">John McGraw</a></strong>) are in the hall and the other three (<strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/coxbo01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Bobby Cox</a></strong>, Tony LaRussa and <strong><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=torrejo01,torre-000joe&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-" target="_blank">Joe Torre</a></strong>) are not yet eligible. I would guess all three of them will be in at some point. Leyland won 90 games 7 times. Johnson did it seven times also, in five fewer seasons. Johnson's Reds teams of 1994 and 1995 may have won 90 games each year if not for the strike. I would argue that both men are worthy, but I would go for Johnson first. His teams were close to the top year in and year out. They will most likely cancel each other out in the voting and neither will get in, which is a shame. Johnson also ruffled more than a few feathers in his time and was quite adept at wearing out welcomes.<br />
<br />
However, Johnson did say the following of his 43 HR season. "Those home runs were no accident. I could pole." Awesome. <br />
<br />
</div>
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